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Are American women Conservative or Liberal?

Are American women Conservative or Liberal?

  • Total voters
    11
Gathomas88 said:
IOW, a couple of them (most notably Jefferson and Franklin) were Libertine scum bags in their personal lives, and you think that was a good thing.

You realize that the vast majority of the men responsible for bringing the United States into existence were actually more "traditional" in terms of their values and morality than their European counter-parts of the same era, correct? Franklin, for example, was rather impressed with the degree of wanton debauchery tolerated in London or Paris that would have been utterly taboo back in the colonies.

In any case, your confusing your terms. Political and economic "Liberalism" is not the same thing as being morally "liberal." They are fundamentally different things.
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No. They were forward thinking pioneers who rejected state religions, the crown, limits on speech, state powers of arrest and conviction, etc.

This same rejection of commonly accepted limitations on humanity by the founding fathers are in the same spirit as the rejection of limitations on humanity by liberals today.

spangledbanner said:
You people put the rights of the individual over the rights of the state is what I am saying. And yes, you Americans are prudish. The fact that so many of you are god-fearing christians is a significant factor.
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I don't particularly disagree with your arguments, but would argue that the European views of the moral issues are more individualistic. Viewing extramarital affairs as acceptable is very individualistic.
 
Gathomas88 said:
You never can tell, I suppose. :mrgreen:
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Well, of course there is no way to know for sure, but based on the things I've read about him, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually cared about her. He is among my favorite characters in history, and one of the people I'd love to have been able to meet. I bet we would have got on famously.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Statistically, American women in general lean liberal, no matter what their age or marital status. I have posted statistics directly to you to that effect before. They may become less liberal dependent on those factors, but so do men.

Overall, the factors affecting political ideology are exactly the same for men and women. But women lean more liberal to start with than men do, so they never wind up crossing over into majority conservative. Men overall are always more conservative than women, in every category.

However "women," or "men," for that matter, are nor conservative or liberal as some kind mass unit. At any given age or marital status, a substantial number are on either side, or no side.

So... how about taking individuals as just that?
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in only one presidential election since women were given the vote (1920-Harding won) has the Democrat nominee won a majority of the male votes-that was LBJ. Meaning if women were as conservative as men, we would have been spared the idiocy of the New Deal, and Obama
 
Unrepresented said:
No. They were forward thinking pioneers who rejected state religions, the crown, limits on speech, state powers of arrest and conviction, etc.

This same rejection of commonly accepted limitations on humanity by the founding fathers are in the same spirit as the rejection of limitations on humanity by liberals today.
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Again, no. They're really not.

First off, whether or not moral behavior is a "limitation on humanity" in the first place is rather subjective. What you seem to view as "evolution," I view as devolution into ever greater depths of callous selfishness and animalistic depravity.

Secondly, as I already pointed out, European culture has always been rather morally lax in comparison to the American variety, even when the Continent had extremely "Conservative" political institutions in place, like state religions, monarchs, limits on speech, and unlimited state powers. As a matter of fact, in many regards, Europe remains less "Liberal" than the United States where such issues are concerned to this very day ('Hate Speech' laws, extraordinarily stringent economic regulations, an almost complete lack of ability for common citizens to bear arms, etca, etca).

You're implying a connection here which simply doesn't exist, I'm afraid.
 
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lizzie said:
Well, of course there is no way to know for sure, but based on the things I've read about him, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually cared about her. He is among my favorite characters in history, and one of the people I'd love to have been able to meet. I bet we would have got on famously.
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He certainly would have been an interesting character. :)

While I can find fault with many of his actions, I agree that he very likely was a man who at least tried to be moral, and likely found himself personally torn with regard to his slaves, especially those with which he was involved.

Washington's always been my favorite, however. :mrgreen:
 
Ryan5 said:
I've often found this truth deeply contradicting to the perceived reality. From my experiences unmarried women and under 30 women tend to be Liberal yet married women and women over 30 tend to be what I would almost call "Mullah-Esq-Conservative".

What do you think?
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Men, left to their own devices, would be libertarian, that is they favor freedom in social issues and freedom in economic-fiscal issues.

Women, left to their own devices, would be justicerian, that is they favor security in social issues and security in economic-fiscal issues.

Of course, age, race, marital status, parental status, these can affect this to alter or increase it.

But otherwise, one could say that women are more likely to be conservative on social issues and liberal on economic-fiscal issues, whereas men are more likely to be liberal on social issues and conservative on economic-fiscal issues.

It all revolves around the nest. Women tend to have a more protective perspective on the home, and thus they tend to support social and economic-fiscal issues that provide that protective support.

Men, though sensitive to a woman's concerns when they're married, have a tendency not to think in those terms, as freedom to explore and and expand is more a man's focus.

Women who are just not prone to "nesting" either now or in the future, or who are done with "nesting", have a tendency to think more like men, unless, of course, they're sensitive to their sons' and daughters' nests.
 
TurtleDude said:
in only one presidential election since women were given the vote (1920-Harding won) has the Democrat nominee won a majority of the male votes-that was LBJ. Meaning if women were as conservative as men, we would have been spared the idiocy of the New Deal, and Obama
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Putting those two things in the same universe is almost unbelievably asinine in its hackishness.

Thank goodness they aren't, as far as I'm concerned.
 
Ryan5 said:
I've often found this truth deeply contradicting to the perceived reality. From my experiences unmarried women and under 30 women tend to be Liberal yet married women and women over 30 tend to be what I would almost call "Mullah-Esq-Conservative".

What do you think?
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How did you arrive at your conclusion?
 
Gathomas88 said:
Again, no. They're really not.

First off, whether or not moral behavior is a "limitation on humanity" in the first place is rather subjective. What you seem to view as "evolution," I view as devolution into ever greater depths of callous selfishness and animalistic depravity.

Secondly, as I already pointed out, European culture has always been rather morally lax in comparison to the American variety, even when the Continent had extremely "Conservative" political institutions in place, like state religions, monarchs, limits on speech, and unlimited state powers. As a matter of fact, in many regards, Europe remains less "Liberal" than the United States where such issues are concerned to this very day ('Hate Speech' laws, extraordinarily stringent economic regulations, an almost complete lack of ability for common citizens to bear arms, etca, etca).

You're implying a connection here which simply doesn't exist, I'm afraid.
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Don't start making so much sense now. :)
 
Ryan5 said:
I've often found this truth deeply contradicting to the perceived reality. From my experiences unmarried women and under 30 women tend to be Liberal yet married women and women over 30 tend to be what I would almost call "Mullah-Esq-Conservative".

What do you think?
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I find myself to be a somewhat conservative liberal.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Putting those two things in the same universe is almost unbelievably asinine in its hackishness.

Thank goodness they aren't, as far as I'm concerned.
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the first statement is factually correct

the second is my opinion that the New Deal was incredibly pernicious as is the failure known as Obama. women voters are the cause for both
 
Ontologuy said:
Men, left to their own devices, would be libertarian, that is they favor freedom in social issues and freedom in economic-fiscal issues.

Women, left to their own devices, would be justicerian, that is they favor security in social issues and security in economic-fiscal issues.
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Citation needed.
 
Ryan5 said:
I've often found this truth deeply contradicting to the perceived reality. From my experiences unmarried women and under 30 women tend to be Liberal yet married women and women over 30 tend to be what I would almost call "Mullah-Esq-Conservative".

What do you think?
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Women are not the Borg, therefore they have disparate views and beliefs with many ranging all over the left/right american scale of political ideology. American women aren't inherently conservative nor liberal.

While polling shows there are more women who identify as Democrats than Republicans, there is a large portion of women who identify as "independent" that throw a wild card into the mix. Furthermore, what party they vote for doesn't necessarily indicate direct liberal/conservative split, with the "independent" group throwing that off a fair bit. Sadly, there's not many polls I can find that actually show gender splits by ideology instead of party, or a good one showing "leaners" with either party instead of leaving independents as a distinct third option.
 
Ryan5 said:
I've often found this truth deeply contradicting to the perceived reality. From my experiences unmarried women and under 30 women tend to be Liberal yet married women and women over 30 tend to be what I would almost call "Mullah-Esq-Conservative".

What do you think?
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Stereotype much?
 
how about both

my wife is over 50, and married

she is a social liberal, and a fiscal conservative

she voted for some dems, some pubs, and a few others in the last election

putting her into a box just isnt going to happen........
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: it's a stereotype because it's true. Married women are more conservative than unmarried women,
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Well, the question was are women liberal or conservative. I don't have to point out how foolish that question is.
 
sawdust said:
Well, the question was are women liberal or conservative. I don't have to point out how foolish that question is.
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The OP made a pretty clear distinction.
 
sawdust said:
I replied to the first post and I have one question. What OP?
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The one that said:

From my experiences unmarried women and under 30 women tend to be Liberal yet married women and women over 30 tend to be what I would almost call "Mullah-Esq-Conservative".
Click to expand...
 
Unrepresented said:
No. They were forward thinking pioneers who rejected state religions, the crown, limits on speech, state powers of arrest and conviction, etc.

This same rejection of commonly accepted limitations on humanity by the founding fathers are in the same spirit as the rejection of limitations on humanity by liberals today.



I don't particularly disagree with your arguments, but would argue that the European views of the moral issues are more individualistic. Viewing extramarital affairs as acceptable is very individualistic.
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You have a warped view of the Europeans... They have their own versions of conservatives. They have more racism, which is kept more in the closet because their countries are much more homogeneous. Some have more nationalism and cultural fascism. They have more than a few non-liberal problems. Some are much more misogynistic in their own way, there is the political elite perception of the Europeans, then there is the cultural reality of it's people.
 
spangledbanner said:
All Americans are liberals. You are a liberal nation. You have a warped understanding of the word liberal. Your Founding Fathers were liberals. Inspired by John Locke.

American conservatives are liberals. So are the Australian conservatives - The Liberal Party...

What did Putin say about the transvestite Russian that married a lesbian Russian in Russia the other week? That they should either be put in a mental asylum or immigrate to the liberal United States of America. Americans are liberals. Your constitution is liberal. You are all liberals.

edit- Non-liberals like me and Putin believe that Freedom belongs to the State. Not to the individual.
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Classical liberalism is all but dead to the left of modern America so although I understand where you're going I wouldn't really agree with it.

Conservatism is meh classical liberalism, kind of close but they stray.

The true evolution of classical liberalism comes in the form of libertarianism, in fact, libertarians are described as neo classical liberals, they just hate being called liberals (probably because of the modern social "liberals").
 
celticwar17 said:
You have a warped view of the Europeans... They have their own versions of conservatives. They have more racism, which is kept more in the closet because their countries are much more homogeneous. Some have more nationalism and cultural fascism. They have more than a few non-liberal problems. Some are much more misogynistic in their own way, there is the political elite perception of the Europeans, then there is the cultural reality of it's people.
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I have a warped view on many things.

I'm not claiming that Europe or Europeans are faultless creations across the board, we are discussing humans here, after all, but they are socially more progressive in a number of ways than their American and international counterparts.
 
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