View Poll Results: When did the United States change stop following the founding fathers vision

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  • 1790-1860

    93 35.09%
  • 1860-1900

    70 26.42%
  • 1900-1932

    57 21.51%
  • 1932-1945

    26 9.81%
  • Other (explain)

    19 7.17%
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Thread: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

  1. #81
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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    I'd say it was when we developed political parties and foreign entanglements.
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    Pepe Booth strikes again.

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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So you're in favor of taxes then? Hand in your conservative credentials immediately.
    Clunk. Sorry, you missed that target Rocket. But you knew that.

  3. #83
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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Hamilton and his wing of Federalists were instrumental in the development of the nation. Small government types just attempt to convince themselves otherwise. I'm glad my ancestor (2nd Sec of Treasury) stuck with the Bank and Hamilton.
    Some people like to pretend Hamilton didn't exist. I've actually been told here that "you liberals love Hamilton," like he's been disowned by "real" Americans.


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  4. #84
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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    This power does not extend to the point of violating other provisions in the Constitution. Our government does not, for example, have the authority to deprive us of our rights to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to keep and bear arms, and so on.
    That is correct which is why I said as much in post #45 including referencing, Reid v Covert, the relevant SCOTUS case.

    At the federal level, our government does not have the authority to claim any powers that the Constitution does not explicitly delegate thereto.
    once again the constitution gives the federal govt the power to make treaties that become the supreme law of the land

    It is not rational to suppose that the authors of the Constitution intended to allow the possibility that our government might use a treaty with a foreign nation as a way to circumvent the limitations and protections that the Constitution is clearly intended to assert. Our government, cannot, for example, enter into a treaty with Iran that requires all citizens of the U.S. to convert to Islam.
    Once again correct and I have already said as much once again I point you to Reid v Covert

    However there is nothing in the constitution which creates a right to do drugs so a treaty can ban those and note that the treaty doesnt even override the 10th amendment as local entities are allowed to legalize drugs.

    Our government does not have the authority to cede to any foreign interest, any power over us, that our government does not, itself have the legitimate authority to exercise over us; and nothing in the portion of the Constitution which you cites—nor anywhere else in the Constitution—can rationally be construed as claiming otherwise.
    No one is ceding authority to your mythical "foreign interest" we freely agree to treaties and we can pull our support from them at any time

  5. #85
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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And this has to do with liberty and self-governance for anyone besides wealthy landed white men being completely different from the founders' ideas... how? I get the knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of the United States' history, but it's not even on topic.
    It directly answers the points invoked in the post I quoted as responding to.

  6. #86
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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The beauty of it was the trick involved. They made it necessary to "get a license," but refused to sell said licenses. So they essentially banned it through the backdoor.
    They were still heating the water to boiling at that point and recognized they didn't have the power to ban it federally. So they played this game, the same one they play now with education funding and a few other things. Eventually they used it as precedence to allow them an outright ban. Game of inches.

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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Hamilton and his wing of Federalists were instrumental in the development of the nation. Small government types just attempt to convince themselves otherwise. I'm glad my ancestor (2nd Sec of Treasury) stuck with the Bank and Hamilton.
    I also see Hamilton as the creator of the corruption in our economic system that extends into modern times. He was tied into the first, second and maybe third crashes of our stock market and his buddies, the cause, were gladhanded.

  8. #88
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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    since we have to go on a time frame...with the most damage done....1880 - 1945

    destruction of Republican form of government, income tax, government expansion into the worlds affairs, federal reserve takeover of our money, the federal government steeping into the personal life's of the people.
    Last edited by Master PO; 12-29-14 at 02:52 PM.

  9. #89
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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    This should provide an interesting discussion.

    The question is this: can you estimate the time period where the united state stopped following the founding fathers exact vision of how the government should operate, as detailed in the federalist papers, U.S constitution, and other founding documents?

    The time periods under scrutiny are as follows:

    1. 1790-1860s. The first time frame covers the administrations of the founding fathers and goes up to the start of the civil war. This time frame assumes that the founding fathers did not adhere to a static interpration of the constitution and found it necessary to fill in the blanks with regards to practical governance.

    2.the second time frame starts in 1860 and concludes around 1900.

    3. Time frame three is set around 1900 and lasts until 1932.

    4. The fourth choice of time frame is from 1932 to 1945.

    If these options seem limited, make your own theory as a fifth option.
    The first is just an unavoidable necessity when you have a document that's inconsistent and full of holes.

    The second is where things truly shift into a different form of existence in which - if certain choices hadn't been made - the world would be very different right now.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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    Re: When did the United States stop following the path of the founding fathers?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    since we have to go on a time frame...with the most damage done....1880 - 1945

    destruction of Republican form of government,
    Stop right there. We have a republican form of government.
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