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Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

  • Total voters
    49
ThePlayDrive said:
I'm still trying to figure out what you think I said. I wonder if you have a computer program that erases what people actually said and then replaces the text with random words that will enable you to criticize them.
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I didn't intend that as criticism. I just meant that we all bring our own pre conceived ideas into the things we analyze so it's not like anything any of us says is any kind of surprise. You condemning the cops actions here was equally as foreseeable as me defending them. That's all.


If I said that I would support it, would you believe me?
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I'd be curious about your reasoning in light of your full agreement with the Ferguson protestors.
 
radcen said:
The Mayor was in a no-win situation. If he had not gone he would have been criticized for not caring, and that criticism would have followed him around far longer.
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Exactly.
 
VanceMack said:
de Blasio has some mending to do. That should be obvious to anyone...even him. If he does nothing and continues to think he is blameless then he will continue to have problems.
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Why is it that de Blasio has mending to do? Isn't it the NYPD who engaged in Stop & Frisk, and act that was ruled illegal in the courts? If the NYPD would stop engaging in the deliberate targeting of minorities and making up excuses to "stop & frisk" them for no reason then that would probably go a long way.
 
Some NYPD officers who have objected publicly to the department's use of stop-question-and-frisk paperwork as a performance metrice which they claim encourages officers to overuse the practice and creates public hostility.
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New York police officer Adrian Schoolcraft made extensive recordings in 2008–2009 which documented orders from NYPD officials to search and arrest black people in the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood. Schoolcraft, who brought accusations of misconduct to NYPD investigators, was transferred to a desk job and then involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital. In 2010, Schoolcraft sent his tapes to the Village Voice, which publicized them in a series of reports. Schoolcraft alleges that the NYPD has retaliated against him for exposing information about the stop and frisk policy.
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Anyone who supports the NYPD is in support of systematic racism. That's all there is to it. It's really open and shut. It's transparent. There's not discussion to be had.
 
reinoe said:
Why is it that de Blasio has mending to do? Isn't it the NYPD who engaged in Stop & Frisk, and act that was ruled illegal in the courts? If the NYPD would stop engaging in the deliberate targeting of minorities and making up excuses to "stop & frisk" them for no reason then that would probably go a long way.
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He shouldnt. he should continue to foment outrage and distrust between his office and law enforcement. That will be extraordinarily helpful.
 
VanceMack said:
He shouldnt. he should continue to foment outrage and distrust between his office and law enforcement. That will be extraordinarily helpful.
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Speaking of fomenting outrage and distrust, why are you avoiding the issue of the NYPD deliberately targeting minorities with the Stop & Frisk program? Would you trust a police department that routinely engages in behavior that's been ruled to unconstitutional and is dominated by petulant children?
 
reinoe said:
Speaking of fomenting outrage and distrust, why are you avoiding the issue of the NYPD deliberately targeting minorities with the Stop & Frisk program? Would you trust a police department that routinely engages in behavior that's been ruled to unconstitutional and is dominated by petulant children?
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I dont run from or defend the stop and frisk policy. You want to debate the merits of stop and frisk, be my guest. It is just one of the areas of grievance NYPD has with de Blasio. If you think its wise that the mayor of ANY city creates hatred and distrust with his law enforcement agency, pray you never run for office.
 
VanceMack said:
Does the mayor typically speak at funerals of fallen police officers? And does anyone know of his comments? Biden also spoke at the funeral...does the Vice President often speak at police funerals? Talk about making a funeral 'political'. Doe sit bother those that are upset with the cops turning their backs (people directly impacted by all of this) that politics is the rule of the day at this funeral? And during Bidens comments anyone care to hazard a guess at the over and under on how many times he made personal comments or comments about Obama's time in New York?

de Blasio has some mending to do. That should be obvious to anyone...even him. If he does nothing and continues to think he is blameless then he will continue to have problems.
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de Blasio does have some mending to do, absolutely. And no doubt some aspects were political, especially Biden's appearance. But there's a time and a place for everything, and the officers would have served their cause and themselves better if they had taken the high road and not used a funeral as a platform. They have some mending to do themselves... with the public. This just made them look like petulant little kids.

Someone made the comment about the whole row between the Mayor and the police department as having turned childish, and this just continued that. "You made it political by showing up when we said not to, so we're going to turn our back when you speak, so nyahh!"... is just piling on more immature behavior.

As far as the question about the Mayor attending officer funerals, I do not know the answer, but my guess is that yes, they generally do. For officers killed in the line of duty and their own cities.
 
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VanceMack said:
I dont run from or defend the stop and frisk policy. You want to debate the merits of stop and frisk, be my guest. It is just one of the areas of grievance NYPD has with de Blasio. If you think its wise that the mayor of ANY city creates hatred and distrust with his law enforcement agency, pray you never run for office.
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If that law enforcement agency is deserving of hatred and distrust then that's what they've earned. And yes the NYPD have earned the people's enmity. It's not there for no reason and it's not there because of one random event. The NYPD have eroded community relations for years and now they're having a tantrum because someone called them out on their unprofessional conduct.
 
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reinoe said:
If that law enforcement agency is deserving of hatred and distrust then that's what they've earned. And yes the NYPD have earned the people's enmity. It's not there for no reason and it's not there because of one random event. The NYPD have eroded community relations for years and now they're having a tantrum because someone called them out on their unprofessional conduct.
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There ya go. Its not like the bulk of the NYPD isnt doing extraordinary things for the community or like there arent actual scumbags out there causing that police response.

Cling to your rhetoric...and stay out of public office.
 
I voted yes. And I'd vote "yes" to any poll asking should the mayor resign or have backs turned to his demagogic arse.


Now let's talk about some real hackery:
reinoe said:
New York's time has come. Like Constantinople or Rome before it the city has become a breeding ground for suffering and injustice. It is beyond saving and must be allowed to die. The NYPD... must be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up. The citizens have fought the decadence and corruption of the NYPD for years with all their strength, all their resources, all their moral authority and the only victory they achieved was union thugs thumbing their nose at the mayor. Now people understand the NYPD is beyond saving and must be allowed to die and be reborn anew.
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Pssst reinoe.............
abatman296c.jpg
LOL
 
VanceMack said:
There ya go. Its not like the bulk of the NYPD isnt doing extraordinary things for the community or like there arent actual scumbags out there causing that police response.

Cling to your rhetoric...and stay out of public office.
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The NYPD has definitely done some extra-ordinary things.

1) They took a funeral and made it about their own selfishness. That takes exra-ordinary selfishness.

2) They enacted a policy that specifically targeted Blacks and Latinos ala (S&F) and then have the gumption to complain when people are cool with deliberate racist policies. That takes extra-ordinary hubris.

3) They have video evidence that one of their officers engaged in a choke-hold, something explicitly against policy and which contributed to the death of a citizen, but didn't have the integrity to discipline the individual. That takes an extra-ordinary lack of discipline and commitment to justify that.

Yes, the NYPD has done many extra-ordinary things. I acknowledge that. Vancemark can't name anything that the NYPD has done that's extra-ordinary. It's just a phrase he throws up without backing it up.
 
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AJiveMan said:
This was supposed to be a funeral, not a place to make a political statement, IMO, another low for the already low NYPD. No respect for the dead or living. Just for themselves. How egotistical.
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If one is to grant that a funeral is not the place for political statements, perhaps no politician who isn't an intimate friend of a police officer's family should ask to speak at such funerals. One has to wonder what special relationship Vice-President Biden had with this officer? What was Mayor De Blasio's non-political special relationship with this officer?

Nothing a politician does is seen other than as political in some form or another - period.
 
reinoe said:
Why is it that de Blasio has mending to do? Isn't it the NYPD who engaged in Stop & Frisk, and act that was ruled illegal in the courts? If the NYPD would stop engaging in the deliberate targeting of minorities and making up excuses to "stop & frisk" them for no reason then that would probably go a long way.
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Do you actually know who gave the orders to initiate Stop and Frisk?

Are you aware that Stop and Frisk, in its current form is constitutional as approved by the US Supreme Court?

Are you aware that provisions for Stop and Frisk are found in New York State legislation?

Are you aware that Mayor Rudy Gulianni approved the order in the early 1990's as part of a move to fight outrageous levels of crime in NYC?

Your idiotic comment makes it sound like a bunch of low level NYC police officers decided this was a good way to tick off blacks. Your post is pathetic.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Your idiotic comment makes it sound like a bunch of low level NYC police officers decided this was a good way to tick off blacks. Your post is pathetic.
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New York police officer Adrian Schoolcraft made extensive recordings in 2008–2009 which documented orders from NYPD officials to search and arrest black people in the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood. Schoolcraft, who brought accusations of misconduct to NYPD investigators, was transferred to a desk job and then involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital. In 2010, Schoolcraft sent his tapes to the Village Voice, which publicized them in a series of reports. Schoolcraft alleges that the NYPD has retaliated against him for exposing information about the stop and frisk policy.
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So it wasn't a bunch of low level NYPD. It had to go to mid-management and probably higher than that. And yes, documented order to literally arrest Blacks. Not hypothetically. Not metaphorically. Literally. As in "go out and arrest some Black people".
 
CanadaJohn said:
Do you actually know who gave the orders to initiate Stop and Frisk?

Are you aware that Stop and Frisk, in its current form is constitutional as approved by the US Supreme Court?

Are you aware that provisions for Stop and Frisk are found in New York State legislation?

Are you aware that Mayor Rudy Gulianni approved the order in the early 1990's as part of a move to fight outrageous levels of crime in NYC?

Your idiotic comment makes it sound like a bunch of low level NYC police officers decided this was a good way to tick off blacks. Your post is pathetic.
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Given the fact that you are speaking to a poster who is cribbing 'talking points' from comic book movie villains in place of his own intellectual POV? I'll bet real money he knows that "Hector's rectum is real" and other comic book movie lines ala Rogen. In other words, the real "meat" that makes internet debate forum contributors like reinoe so singularly unique and original! LOL.
 
reinoe said:
So it wasn't a bunch of low level NYPD. It had to go to mid-management and probably higher than that. And yes, documented order to literally arrest Blacks. Not hypothetically. Not metaphorically. Literally. As in "go out and arrest some Black people".
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All of which is constitutionally legal, as sanctioned by the Supreme Court - the documentation of the action a police officer takes each and every time a citizen is stopped, questioned, and frisked, also being sanctioned by legislation and the Supreme Court.

As for "go out and arrest some black people", cite your reference to black people being arrested in NYC illegally and without cause. Otherwise, it's just more nonsense you pull out of your ass.

I appreciate that you believe that any action taken by police in order to stop and reduce crime is by its nature illegal since you seem to believe that criminals should be able to operate freely and without deterrence. The vast majority of the people of NYC respectfully disagree and are quite happy with the great reduction in crime NYC has experienced since Mayor Gulianni first instituted the program on a broad basis.
 
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CanadaJohn said:
If one is to grant that a funeral is not the place for political statements, perhaps no politician who isn't an intimate friend of a police officer's family should ask to speak at such funerals. One has to wonder what special relationship Vice-President Biden had with this officer? What was Mayor De Blasio's non-political special relationship with this officer?

Nothing a politician does is seen other than as political in some form or another - period.
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In general, I agree with your comment. But sometimes events happen that transcend the local community, and a higher level politician attending/speaking is appropriate. They still represent the locals as well as people in other areas, after all.

An extreme example would be funerals of first responders after 9/11. The President wouldn't be able to make them all, of course, that wouldn't be realistic or practical, but I would expect him to be at something.

Does this event qualify for someone as high as the VP to attend? I think so. While local, it is also national in concern and part of our national consciousness right now.

Is there a way to completely eliminate an appearance of photo-opportunism? Probably not. For good or for bad, that's the cynical world we live in.

Having said that, if they do attend, they should keep their comments to praising the fallen and attempting to comfort the families. (As much as possible)
 
CanadaJohn said:
All of which is constitutionally legal, as sanctioned by the Supreme Court - the documentation of the action a police officer takes each and every time a citizen is stopped, questioned, and frisked, also being sanctioned by legislation and the Supreme Court.

As for "go out and arrest some black people", cite your reference to black people being arrested in NYC illegally and without cause. Otherwise, it's just more nonsense you pull out of your ass.

I appreciate that you believe that any action taken by police in order to stop and reduce crime is by its nature illegal since you seem to believe that criminals should be able to operate freely and without deterrence. The vast majority of the people of NYC respectfully disagree and are quite happy with the great reduction in crime NYC has experienced since Mayor Gulianni first instituted the program on a broad basis.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/opinion/the-nypds-obsession-with-numbers.html?_r=0

The result of this “performance culture”: needless summonses for minor violations (putting one’s feet on subway seats, playing chess in a park, failing to wear seat belts) and other quota-driven activity. This does not make for efficient policing.
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Yes. These are the threats that the NYPD is protecting us from. And again...specifically going to "high crime areas"=specifically going to areas with a lot of minorities and then issuing infractions for minor violations. Or are you suggesting Whites don't...put their feet up on subway seats, play chess in a apark, or fail to wear seat belts? Now you see first hand why areas with a lot of minorities have a lot of "crime". It's because of petty bull****.
NYPD faces criticism over stop-and-frisk
Kelly and Mayor Michael Bloomberg have staunchly defended the ever-expanding program, saying it is partly responsible over the last decade for halving a murder rate that once made New York one of the most dangerous cities in the developed world.
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Wow, stopping people from playing chess is lowering the murder rate in NEW YORK!!!! Or it could be because crime across the entire nation has been going down nationwide. But hey, those cops gotta meet quotas right?

The blind support of deliberately racist policies by conservatives is no surprise to me. What is surprising is the blind support of quotas for the number citations cops have to issue. Actually, never mind. As long as the citations are issued to non-whites it's not surprising conservatives are all for it.
 
radcen said:
In general, I agree with your comment. But sometimes events happen that transcend the local community, and a higher level politician attending/speaking is appropriate. They still represent the locals as well as people in other areas, after all.

An extreme example would be funerals of first responders after 9/11. The President wouldn't be able to make them all, of course, that wouldn't be realistic or practical, but I would expect him to be at something.

Does this event qualify for someone as high as the VP to attend? I think so. While local, it is also national in concern and part of our national consciousness right now.

Is there a way to completely eliminate an appearance of photo-opportunism? Probably not. For good or for bad, that's the cynical world we live in.

Having said that, if they do attend, they should keep their comments to praising the fallen and attempting to comfort the families. (As much as possible)
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How many law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty in the United States in 2014 so far? 125

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Preliminary 2014 Fatality Statistics

How many of the funerals for these law enforcement officers did Vice-President Biden attend? 1

If it wasn't political, why did Biden attend? Is he related or intimate friends with the Ramos family?

Vice-President Biden attended because the Obama administration from the President on down has made police interaction with black criminals a political issue in 2014 and their actions can be argued to be a contributing factor in the deaths of the last two officers in NYC. It's a CYA move, plain and simple. Biden has no shame and Obama wouldn't show his sorry face at the funeral for fear of an assassination attempt. And the number one law enforcement/justice representative in the country, Eric Holder, is too busy ginning up some civil rights charges against police officers in Ferguson and NYC and too busy to show up.

The entire funeral was tainted with politics but it's time to move on and hope that saner heads can prevail in NYC and get back to making the city a safer and more livable place as the police and authorities have been doing for the past two decades.
 
reinoe said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/opinion/the-nypds-obsession-with-numbers.html?_r=0


Yes. These are the threats that the NYPD is protecting us from. And again...specifically going to "high crime areas"=specifically going to areas with a lot of minorities and then issuing infractions for minor violations. Or are you suggesting Whites don't...put their feet up on subway seats, play chess in a apark, or fail to wear seat belts? Now you see first hand why areas with a lot of minorities have a lot of "crime". It's because of petty bull****.
NYPD faces criticism over stop-and-frisk

Wow, stopping people from playing chess is lowering the murder rate in NEW YORK!!!! Or it could be because crime across the entire nation has been going down nationwide. But hey, those cops gotta meet quotas right?

The blind support of deliberately racist policies by conservatives is no surprise to me. What is surprising is the blind support of quotas for the number citations cops have to issue. Actually, never mind. As long as the citations are issued to non-whites it's not surprising conservatives are all for it.
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I'm more inclined to listen to the people of NYC and their support for law enforcement and crime reduction in their own city than listen to someone claiming to be from "Out West" and fantasizing about racist police around every corner.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I'm more inclined to listen to the people of NYC and their support for law enforcement and crime reduction in their own city than listen to someone claiming to be from "Out West" and fantasizing about racist police around every corner.
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"Fantasizing about racist police around every corner". You've blown your credibility to hell and back.

You remain conspicuously silent on documented evidence of police deliberately targeting minorities and you've dodged documented evidence that the NYPD made up bull**** in areas of the city dominated by minorities in order to meet quotas. All just to make up a strawman to burn down. Yes, remaining silent on the issue of injustice is what cowards do best. Remain silent then, it's probably best to keep your ideas that enable racism to yourself.
 
reinoe said:
"Fantasizing about racist police around every corner". You've blown your credibility to hell and back.

You remain conspicuously silent on documented evidence of police deliberately targeting minorities and you've dodged documented evidence that the NYPD made up bull**** in areas of the city dominated by minorities in order to meet quotas. All just to make up a strawman to burn down. Yes, remaining silent on the issue of injustice is what cowards do best. Remain silent then, it's probably best to keep your ideas that enable racism to yourself.
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Even on the internet it is a rare sight when Raʾs al-Ġūl himself speaks to conspicuous credibility.:lamo
 
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CanadaJohn said:
How many law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty in the United States in 2014 so far? 125

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Preliminary 2014 Fatality Statistics

How many of the funerals for these law enforcement officers did Vice-President Biden attend? 1

If it wasn't political, why did Biden attend? Is he related or intimate friends with the Ramos family?

Vice-President Biden attended because the Obama administration from the President on down has made police interaction with black criminals a political issue in 2014 and their actions can be argued to be a contributing factor in the deaths of the last two officers in NYC. It's a CYA move, plain and simple. Biden has no shame and Obama wouldn't show his sorry face at the funeral for fear of an assassination attempt. And the number one law enforcement/justice representative in the country, Eric Holder, is too busy ginning up some civil rights charges against police officers in Ferguson and NYC and too busy to show up.

The entire funeral was tainted with politics but it's time to move on and hope that saner heads can prevail in NYC and get back to making the city a safer and more livable place as the police and authorities have been doing for the past two decades.
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That's it? That's your beef? You have a hard on because the VP attended?

:roll:

Carry on.
 
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