View Poll Results: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

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  • Yes

    57 24.89%
  • No

    104 45.41%
  • I don't know?

    44 19.21%
  • He could go but he should have kept quiet.

    24 10.48%
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Thread: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

  1. #131
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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    First off, I'm not a di Blasio apologist, it'd be more accurate to describe me as critical of the way many police departments, including the NYPD - currently operate. And I wasn't trying to stifle debate by asking you if you were a NY resident - rather I was trying to gauge whether or not you actually knew locals and had a basis for your opinion that my opinions on the subject weren't shared by other local New York residents. I'm not trying to stifle debate - just trying to judge the quality of your comments.

    The NYPD doesn't simply enforce laws. There is no local law that says officers must stop-and-frisk anyone. That is a department policy who's legal justification comes out of the SC decision in Ohio v. Terry which allows protective pat downs when officers have a reasonable suspicion to stop someone (btw - if you know cops - and I do, I have several friends and family members who are cops including my kid brother who retired from the NYPD, - "reasonable suspicion" is pretty much whatever the cop wants it to be)

    So saying they were "enforcing the law" is factually incorrect. They were stretching their discretion to stop people who otherwise wouldn't have been stopped. And btw a Federal District judge found the practice to be unconstitutional a ruling that di Blasio has stated he will not appeal.

    So are you going to get around to countering my statement that the officers are engaged in acts of insubordination or not? That is the crux of my argument.
    Where did you read my comments that "your opinions on the subject weren't shared by other local New York residents" at? When none exist? You keep avoiding every thing I state about di Blasio's role in all of this, and I've barely addressed his actions both when he ran for office and since. Given the fact you can't or won't address what I have said but are supplying comments I nor anyone else in the thread has made? Looks like a di Blasio apologist that is deflecting to me.

    The men and women of the NYPD that you are so critical of, followed the lawful departmental policies and directives they were ordered to. Until such time as they changed. My incorrect assessment of the policy origins aside, the casting of them as villains for doing so is one of di Blasio's problems with the PD. That you ignore because di Blasio did so "rightly" according to you.

    The crux of the matter is that while you complain about and cite "insubordination" and how much like a military (post# 112) NYPD is, you are forgetting one very important and stark distinction. Which is ironic because earlier you seemed to be aware of the fact that the men and women of the NYPD are members of a union. But as long as you choose to continue to ignore those distinctions and the rights that come with them, your argument is unpersuasive. As well as unrealistic as all hell too. You bristled before at the idea you were being emotional and irrational, yet........................

  2. #132
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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Agreed. Back turning was unprofessional, it was at a funereal and the Officers who turned their backs made it into a political statement. Absolutely shameful behavior.
    And much the same has been said of di Blasio's behavior. For quite some time too, even before the recent events. Speaking of shameful behavior, I understand this same mayor that has such a controversial relationship with his own PD, could not even make it on time to the funeral of the assassinated officer.
    Last edited by Horace; 12-31-14 at 08:36 PM.

  3. #133
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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horace View Post
    And much the same has been said of di Blasio's behavior. For quite some time too, even before the recent events.
    He is a Politician, they are professionals. Why sink to a politicians level?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  4. #134
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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    He is a Politician, they are professionals. Why sink to a politicians level?
    The politician that was late to the very funeral that the complaints about the officers who turned their backs to him at, are being made about? And is the subject of this thread? Possibly, wild idea here, wild one, the death of their fellow officers? One of which the mayor could not even bother to be on time for the funeral of?
    Last edited by Horace; 12-31-14 at 08:43 PM.

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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horace View Post
    The politician that was late to the very funeral that the complaints about the officers who turned their backs to him at, are being made about? And is the subject of this thread? Possibly, wild idea here, wild one, the death of their fellow officers? One of which the mayor could not even bother to be on time for the funeral of?
    And he came out with a BS reply as to why he was late, that is if I recall correctly? Then he came truthful on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  6. #136
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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    And he came out with a BS reply as to why he was late, that is if I recall correctly? Then he came truthful on it.
    Without searching I recall his excuse was pretty 'dog ate my homework' in nature. In any case, Happy New Year!

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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Gad, people - we have two dead cops and lots of emotions around it. Would you all give everyone a break - whether it's the mayor, whether it's the cops, whether it's the residents - let's just chill out, recognize that everyone is affected by this, and stop giving anyone a hard time?

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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Gad, people - we have two dead cops and lots of emotions around it. Would you all give everyone a break - whether it's the mayor, whether it's the cops, whether it's the residents - let's just chill out, recognize that everyone is affected by this, and stop giving anyone a hard time?
    Let me get this right. You logged into a "debate forum" and then selected a topic in the "polls" section (that naturally requires a reply and interest in the subject matter) and chose to "reply" to the back and forth happening within it? With this?

    Clearly the happiness of the new year is already upon you. In that case, cheers and happy new year!

  9. #139
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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Great analogy.

    A friend gave me the book "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" when my mom was dying. I admit I read little of it; but the section I read that has stuck with me ever since is something along the lines of - everyone reacts to death differently. And some of those reactions might seem "wrong" to you. But give everyone space to grieve, space to act in the way that they do; don't judge.

    Death is so stressful, so hard on people; it really does reveal dysfunctions, but don't get upset at them - just let them pass. That thought has helped me over the years. So whether or not someone thinks the mayor did right or wrong or the cops did right or wrong - let's not fight about it, just accept that everyone reacts differently and move forward.


    That is a great book. You should try to finish reading it.

  10. #140
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    Re: Should de Blasio have Attended Officer Ramos Funeral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horace View Post
    Where did you read my comments that "your opinions on the subject weren't shared by other local New York residents" at? When none exist? You keep avoiding every thing I state about di Blasio's role in all of this, and I've barely addressed his actions both when he ran for office and since. Given the fact you can't or won't address what I have said but are supplying comments I nor anyone else in the thread has made? Looks like a di Blasio apologist that is deflecting to me.

    The men and women of the NYPD that you are so critical of, followed the lawful departmental policies and directives they were ordered to. Until such time as they changed. My incorrect assessment of the policy origins aside, the casting of them as villains for doing so is one of di Blasio's problems with the PD. That you ignore because di Blasio did so "rightly" according to you.

    The crux of the matter is that while you complain about and cite "insubordination" and how much like a military (post# 112) NYPD is, you are forgetting one very important and stark distinction. Which is ironic because earlier you seemed to be aware of the fact that the men and women of the NYPD are members of a union. But as long as you choose to continue to ignore those distinctions and the rights that come with them, your argument is unpersuasive. As well as unrealistic as all hell too. You bristled before at the idea you were being emotional and irrational, yet........................
    Happy New Year.

    Ok so let me try to clarify what I've been saying and try to answer all of your questions and point in order.

    Firstly regarding my comments about my opinion and whether or not it's shared by other New Yorkers, that was in response to this point of yours (post 116)

    Sorry guy, I don't think anybody but you "cares" about your tangential point. But like I said, di Blasio could always throw common sense and his own political survivability to the wind and try to go after these officers. What could possibly go wrong? LOL
    My point here was simply that my opinion, which you seemed to be saying was unique to me is shared by many of my fellow New Yorkers. Nothing more. It's a minor point and whether or not it's mine along or the opinion of seven million others is really irrelevant and is really obscuring the main points.

    I'm not really avoiding de Blasio's role in all of this. I think it's beside the point in a discussion about NYPD's subservience to the elected leadership of the city. While I'll stipulate that de Blasio could have handled things better he is still the elected leader of the city and his ham fisted dealings with the police do not justify the actions of the officers. Employees, be they private or public sector, in general do not have the right to publicly criticize their boss and expect there to be no conseqences for their actions. Doubly so in an organization, like the NYPD or the military, where discipline and respect for the chain-of-command is of paramount importance. And while I'd honestly like to see insubordinate cops fired, I know it probably won't happen because of the union contract. That's a problem - though not one specific to the police but to most public sector union contracts - in NY at least. A contract that doesn't allow for the effective supervision of staff, including firing those who can't do the job properly, is of itself a problem but one that sadly probably will never be addressed given the strength of public sector unions. That again though, really doesn't change the fact that guys with guns who can make life a living hell for the populace if they choose to do so should be fired when show disrespect for lawful authority.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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