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Has the superpower status made the US too arrogant?

Has superpower status made the US too arrogant?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 50.0%

  • No

    Votes: 17 50.0%
  • Total voters
    34
Helix said:
i'm talking about shifting our focus from being an empire to being a country. nation building in America instead of interventionism abroad.
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You unpatriotic turd!
 
KevinKohler said:
Before answering a question, I must first ask a question, and I would LIKE at least an attempt at an honest answer...from anyone willing to try for it.


Imagine a world where there WAS no USA. Just an empty expanse of ocean between south america and canada.


Where, in such a world, would everyone be? Better off? Worse off? Think about it in historical context, and give it a serious go around in the old noodle.


And then answer THIS question...is it arrogance to simply acknowledge one's perception of the truth?
Click to expand...

USA capitalism has developed the economies of many Nations by secondary and tertiary interaction.
I do ont think the USA has attempted to spread freedom and democracy, more like oppression and
resource rape. If it has secondary benefits to the population we are interacting with, it is only because
it is profitting our Vulture Corporations. Along comes the CIA, chartered to help USA Corporations
overseas, and does precisely that and becomes a type of partner with the Corporate groups it is always
assisting. Mission creep and now the CIA is in bed with USSA MultiNational Corporate elites, has huge
black budgets from the US Treasury Exchange Stabilization Fund, access to NSA snoop data on all the
World's banks as a result of deploying PROMIS software with a back door in every major financial
Institution, has enough budget to manipulate currencies and destroy small Nations, operates its' own
Military warriors, operates the Drone program, insinuates its' agents in major financial (banks, hedge
funds) and MSM corporates and all while the citizens think the CIA is collecting and analyzing data.
Full Sprecrum Dominance means just what it says and means more than military dominance. Think
financial dominance (IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, etc.) worldwide
as a weapon and watch Ukraine and Russia. The citizens don't get to vote on or OK any of these
programs that benefit the MultiNational Elite CORPORATIONS. This is an attempt at World domination
using Central Banks and Investment Banks. It's really working for the 1% of the 1%, don't ya' know.

It it doesn't work, the USA economy collapses. That's simple economics.
 
MildSteel said:
The problem is that sometimes what we do is misguided, and when others try to tell us it is misguided, as in the case of the Iraq war, we do not listen.
Click to expand...

My experience with people saying public goods are misguided is that they are using it as an excuse to deflect having to pay their fair share, while letting their competitor pay for the policing costs.

In the case of the Iraq war it was worse. There the protestations were so made that they so obviously made the invasion more probable that it is hardly believable that Putin did not structure his strategy with that in mind. Both he and Chirac were professedly dedicated to driving the world towards multipolarization and their game plan fit that perfectly. Schröder was mainly interested in his then upcoming election and perhaps his future job had already been indicated. Also, if you want to think about it, the change in politics in Germany and France seem to indicate that the political elites of these two countries, though, not necessarily the populations realized how counterproductive the policy had been.
 
Helix said:
i'm talking about shifting our focus from being an empire to being a country. nation building in America instead of interventionism abroad.
Click to expand...

Like what?
 
American said:
Like what?
Click to expand...

we should be concentrating primarily on rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, massively upgrading our electrical grid, replacing our transportation energy model, and fixing our health care distribution system.
 
Helix said:
we should be concentrating primarily on rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, massively upgrading our electrical grid, replacing our transportation energy model, and fixing our health care distribution system.
Click to expand...

That would shutting up all the environmentalists in prisons, because solar farms based on current technology and windfarms aren't going to cut it.
 
American said:
That would shutting up all the environmentalists in prisons, because solar farms based on current technology and windfarms aren't going to cut it.
Click to expand...

because we all know that "current technology" is as good as it's going to get.

if you're genuinely curious, i also support nuclear energy; preferably thorium technology.
 
Helix said:
because we all know that "current technology" is as good as it's going to get.

if you're genuinely curious, i also support nuclear energy; preferably thorium technology.
Click to expand...
Sure it's going to get better, but wackos can't wait and demand it be better now, so they protest the construction of nuke plants. They don't know what they're talking about most of the time. When was the last nuke plant built?
 
American said:
Sure it's going to get better, but wackos can't wait and demand it be better now, so they protest the construction of nuke plants. They don't know what they're talking about most of the time. When was the last nuke plant built?
Click to expand...

this is another great reason for thorium; no potential meltdowns.

as for NIMBY crap, the government needs to cut the red tape and just build them. our grid is insufficient, and this is a national security issue.
 
Goshin said:
As an individual, I agree.

However, some things to note: I am a middle aged man. Experience has taught me that I am mortal, and that no man is invincible, and that even the greatest of warriors is only "the greatest" for a limited period of time.

A young man has not experienced these things yet. You can tell him... perhaps he will even acknowledge the intellectual truth of it... but the courage of his young heart trusts in the might and skill of his limbs, and in his gut he will not truly believe he can fall like any other man... until it happens.

I know this, because I was a young warrior once. :)

A nation in the midst of its strength is like a young man. Wisdom can whisper "you are mortal" in its ear, but it's heart hears only the thunderous glory of its own jets and tanks and guns.
Click to expand...

What you are saying is in essence is that a strong young man cannot control his mind with his intelligence and I am sorry, but again, I disagree with you in the strongest terms. There are three classes of intelligent people. The first class person of intelligence merely hears what is truely right, immediately knows it is right, and does what is right. The second class person hears what is right, but has to see others make mistakes to understand that it is right, and after having seen others make mistakes, he himself does what is right. The third class person with intelligence hears what is truely right, sees others make mistakes, and he himself has to make the mistakes, to learn and do what is right. Now all three of them are intelligent, but of the three, the first class man is the best. Now there is another class. This class of men hears what is truely right, sees others make mistakes, he makes the same mistakes, but yet he continues to do what IS NOT right. That is a fool. The problem with arrogance is that if it is not abandoned, over time it will make one a fool. So what you described is a man of intelligence, and that is indeed to be commended, but it is not the truely exceptional, first class case. To be truely exceptional, individuals and nations, must abandon arrogance.
 
MildSteel said:
There is a saying that pride proceeds the fall. It is one thing for a country to aggressively pursue it's self interests. However, it is another thing when it seeks to impose a set of decadent moral values on people who do not want to take part. That is symptom of an underlying arrogance. Has the power made the US too arrogant?
Click to expand...

Arrogance is not imposing your values on others, that would be Tyranny, which is more of our internal politics, not external. Externally, we are arrogant, but not TOO arrogant. We ARE better than everywhere else, politically. And so a bit of arrogance is expected. We are also extremely tolerant and giving.
 
Fenton said:
Yup, we need to be knocked down a notch or two.

We elected a leftist dumbass in 2008 and 2012 for that very purpose

How DARE we adhere to this exceptional mindset given our horrible, horrible , horrible , horrible past ...
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO!!!!

I actually enjoyed that one!!!!

"A" for you brother!!!!
 
joG said:
My experience with people saying public goods are misguided is that they are using it as an excuse to deflect having to pay their fair share, while letting their competitor pay for the policing costs.

In the case of the Iraq war it was worse. There the protestations were so made that they so obviously made the invasion more probable that it is hardly believable that Putin did not structure his strategy with that in mind. Both he and Chirac were professedly dedicated to driving the world towards multipolarization and their game plan fit that perfectly. Schröder was mainly interested in his then upcoming election and perhaps his future job had already been indicated. Also, if you want to think about it, the change in politics in Germany and France seem to indicate that the political elites of these two countries, though, not necessarily the populations realized how counterproductive the policy had been.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. Had not thought about is like that before. I need some time to try and digest that before I can say anything.
 
jonny5 said:
Arrogance is not imposing your values on others, that would be Tyranny, which is more of our internal politics, not external. Externally, we are arrogant, but not TOO arrogant. We ARE better than everywhere else, politically. And so a bit of arrogance is expected. We are also extremely tolerant and giving.
Click to expand...

Tyranny is a manifestation of arrogance.
 
DaveFagan said:
USA capitalism has developed the economies of many Nations by secondary and tertiary interaction.
I do ont think the USA has attempted to spread freedom and democracy, more like oppression and
resource rape. If it has secondary benefits to the population we are interacting with, it is only because
it is profitting our Vulture Corporations. Along comes the CIA, chartered to help USA Corporations
overseas, and does precisely that and becomes a type of partner with the Corporate groups it is always
assisting. Mission creep and now the CIA is in bed with USSA MultiNational Corporate elites, has huge
black budgets from the US Treasury Exchange Stabilization Fund, access to NSA snoop data on all the
World's banks as a result of deploying PROMIS software with a back door in every major financial
Institution, has enough budget to manipulate currencies and destroy small Nations, operates its' own
Military warriors, operates the Drone program, insinuates its' agents in major financial (banks, hedge
funds) and MSM corporates and all while the citizens think the CIA is collecting and analyzing data.
Full Sprecrum Dominance means just what it says and means more than military dominance. Think
financial dominance (IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, etc.) worldwide
as a weapon and watch Ukraine and Russia. The citizens don't get to vote on or OK any of these
programs that benefit the MultiNational Elite CORPORATIONS. This is an attempt at World domination
using Central Banks and Investment Banks. It's really working for the 1% of the 1%, don't ya' know.

It it doesn't work, the USA economy collapses. That's simple economics.
Click to expand...

You're only looking at fairly recent history. The US has been a country since 1776. Dig a little deeper, and try a little harder.

Yes, we are capitalist, and yes, we have interests in the resources of other countries. Yes, sometimes (maybe even a LOT of times) the desire for those resources trumps everything else. Especially oil. I condone none of that, as a citizen. But do you know who DOES condone it? A LOT of the rest of the world, even some of those countries we're "raping". Even taking what you have said at face value, and assuming it's true, it's still very much a net gain. Capitalism, and variations of it, is responsible for the greatest increase in quality of life, technological innovation, and PEACE since the Roman Empire. And no other country has done more to facilitate the spread of capitalism, or some variation of it, than the US. Of course, our mark on this world can be traced back much, MUCH further. To out very founding. The US has historically been a beacon to the oppressed. A chance at freedom for those who would never have experienced it otherwise. Do you think the Irish, Italian, Chinese, etc, all came here because they so loved their home country? Yeah, they came here and endured near slave labor to build this country. And yet...they stayed, and yet, more came, and yet, we remained a beacon. Imagine a world WITHOUT the hope of a better place, and a better life, and a better way?

And then, of course, there is the atomic bomb. No atomic bomb, no end to great wars. We single handedly insured peace for generations. You could claim that we simply insured the destruction of our race should the peace not last...and that takes a very negative view towards human beings in general. I tend to be a bit less negative. No, the peace will last, and it will do so because no one wants their species to end.

These are but a few of our contributions.
 
MildSteel said:
What you are saying is in essence is that a strong young man cannot control his mind with his intelligence and I am sorry, but again, I disagree with you in the strongest terms. There are three classes of intelligent people. The first class person of intelligence merely hears what is truely right, immediately knows it is right, and does what is right. The second class person hears what is right, but has to see others make mistakes to understand that it is right, and after having seen others make mistakes, he himself does what is right. The third class person with intelligence hears what is truely right, sees others make mistakes, and he himself has to make the mistakes, to learn and do what is right. Now all three of them are intelligent, but of the three, the first class man is the best. Now there is another class. This class of men hears what is truely right, sees others make mistakes, he makes the same mistakes, but yet he continues to do what IS NOT right. That is a fool. The problem with arrogance is that if it is not abandoned, over time it will make one a fool. So what you described is a man of intelligence, and that is indeed to be commended, but it is not the truely exceptional, first class case. To be truely exceptional, individuals and nations, must abandon arrogance.
Click to expand...

Your entire post relies on an OPINION that there is such a thing as a universal right and wrong. "Knowing" this thing does NOT denote intelligence, but cultural norms. Based on how one is raised, the retarded kid can know right from wrong. And the genius working on some new bio weapon has no such idea of right or wrong. In short, intelligence =/= morality.
 
No. It has not made us arrogant. The world and all that has transpired over the last several decades has made us appropriately wary. We as a people must simply ensure that this does not slip us into a national psychosis. I remember one high-ranking official once saying to me in my younger years, "Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get you."

I have lived and worked in a lot of places, and I wouldn't trust any other nation with the power that the United States currently holds. With the exception of many policy decisions that I believed could have been handled in other ways, overall, we have done one heck of a job helping to make the world a much better place, despite our flaws.
 
KevinKohler said:
Your entire post relies on an OPINION that there is such a thing as a universal right and wrong. "Knowing" this thing does NOT denote intelligence, but cultural norms. Based on how one is raised, the retarded kid can know right from wrong. And the genius working on some new bio weapon has no such idea of right or wrong. In short, intelligence =/= morality.
Click to expand...

If you say there is not a universal right and wrong, absolute truth if you will, that is also an opinion.
 
MildSteel said:
If you say there is not a universal right and wrong, absolute truth if you will, that is also an opinion.
Click to expand...

Correct, meaning my response to your post is exactly as valid as your post. And even still, regardless of who is right, one thing CAN be considered fairly true...intelligence =/= morality.


When debating, especially when debating about things like politics, economics, or just political correctness, I try to focus on things that are observable, and quantifiable. Faith makes for bad policy making.
 
KevinKohler said:
Correct, meaning my response to your post is exactly as valid as your post. And even still, regardless of who is right, one thing CAN be considered fairly true...intelligence =/= morality.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with your point concerning intelligence and morality, but that is because we have two different definitions of morality. That being the case that we will not agree on a definition of morality, what you said cannot be considered to be fairly true.

KevinKohler said:
When debating, especially when debating about things like politics, economics, or just political correctness, I try to focus on things that are observable, and quantifiable. Faith makes for bad policy making.
Click to expand...

It is impossible to make an observation without having some element of faith, because you have to assume that you exist to make an observation, and existentiality is something that cannot be proved. It must be accepted with faith.
 
Goshin said:
As an individual, I agree.


However, some things to note: I am a middle aged man. Experience has taught me that I am mortal, and that no man is invincible, and that even the greatest of warriors is only "the greatest" for a limited period of time.


A young man has not experienced these things yet. You can tell him... perhaps he will even acknowledge the intellectual truth of it... but the courage of his young heart trusts in the might and skill of his limbs, and in his gut he will not truly believe he can fall like any other man... until it happens.

I know this, because I was a young warrior once. :)



A nation in the midst of its strength is like a young man. Wisdom can whisper "you are mortal" in its ear, but it's heart hears only the thunderous glory of its own jets and tanks and guns.
Click to expand...

So you conflate individual 'brain states' with the actions of a nation, very strange. In addition, you model it on the 'young buck' mentality, just one model, not always desirable, to say the least.

Paul
 
KevinKohler said:
You're only looking at fairly recent history. The US has been a country since 1776. Dig a little deeper, and try a little harder.

Yes, we are capitalist, and yes, we have interests in the resources of other countries. Yes, sometimes (maybe even a LOT of times) the desire for those resources trumps everything else. Especially oil. I condone none of that, as a citizen. But do you know who DOES condone it? A LOT of the rest of the world, even some of those countries we're "raping". Even taking what you have said at face value, and assuming it's true, it's still very much a net gain. Capitalism, and variations of it, is responsible for the greatest increase in quality of life, technological innovation, and PEACE since the Roman Empire. And no other country has done more to facilitate the spread of capitalism, or some variation of it, than the US. Of course, our mark on this world can be traced back much, MUCH further. To out very founding. The US has historically been a beacon to the oppressed. A chance at freedom for those who would never have experienced it otherwise. Do you think the Irish, Italian, Chinese, etc, all came here because they so loved their home country? Yeah, they came here and endured near slave labor to build this country. And yet...they stayed, and yet, more came, and yet, we remained a beacon. Imagine a world WITHOUT the hope of a better place, and a better life, and a better way?

And then, of course, there is the atomic bomb. No atomic bomb, no end to great wars. We single handedly insured peace for generations. You could claim that we simply insured the destruction of our race should the peace not last...and that takes a very negative view towards human beings in general. I tend to be a bit less negative. No, the peace will last, and it will do so because no one wants their species to end.

These are but a few of our contributions.
Click to expand...

You are correct, I am more focused on recent history because what I see
is that the USA has been in a Corporate vs. Labor war for over a hundred
years and Corporate has won. I no longer see Capitalism, but Corporatism.
That is very close to Fascism. USA citizens are usually truly nice people,
and the current gov't objectives don't seem to represent nice people. The
objectives have become representative of very wealthy connected businesses
and individuals.
 
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