View Poll Results: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

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  • Yes

    78 70.91%
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    32 29.09%
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Thread: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

  1. #51
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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Advocating for personal responsibility involves more than simply paying lip service to the issue. Here's Obama's speech on Ferguson - Remarks by the President After Announcement of the Decision by the Grand Jury in Ferguson, Missouri | The White House

    Basically, it says "we know that cops prey on black communities but please don't throw bottles". That's a long damned way from talking about personal responsibility.

    Here is Obama's speech about Trayvon Martin - Remarks by the President on Trayvon Martin | The White House

    The crux of this speech is that "yeah, statistics show that black kids get in more trouble but that's because the justice system is racist". Again, nothing about personal responsibility.

    Here's Obama's statement on the 2 cops that got assassinated - Statement by the President | The White House

    Not even 100 words and, again, no statement about personal responsibility.


    Barack Obama and his "social justice" agenda can kiss my ass.
    What does black youth crime have to do with how police interacting with black youth?

    That is the exact example of black kids taking responsibility for their actions.

    The problem is that all black youth are judged on what other blacks have done...NO ONE is saying that any person committing crime should not be held accountable. The argument is it that TOO MANY people lump all blacks together because of the action of others blacks.

    Its not about Obama holding black youth accountable, its about holding all black youth accountable for the actions of some.

    Personal responsibility means you are only responsible for your actions and no one else's.


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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    What does black youth crime have to do with how police interacting with black youth?
    It has to do with the fact that instead of looking for solutions to the issues that the black community faces in terms of poverty, and crime statistics, major figures like Sharpton take a more divisive, inflammatory approach without addressing the core issues. They simplify all of the problems to race. The cynic in me would rather say that Obama and these other major figures are the only source of the problem, but the realist in me sees some of the recent issues as a combination of these figure's inflammatory responses, and police forces being in need of maintaining a relationship of trust in the community and playing an interactive role in it's development and prosperity. When they aren't as active in that role, it's no surprise when those communities aren't particularly faithful in their handling. On the other hand, such issues aren't necessarily all about race as the Sharptons of this country typically spout all the time. The focus seems to be assuming guilt before proven, and singling out root causes without dealing with the facts or the events which initiate these sorts of discussions
    Last edited by Kanzaki; 12-28-14 at 12:33 AM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Had he not been breaking the law in the first place, he more than likely would have been alive. Personal responsibility anyone?
    Ya, you are right. His crime, not paying a few pennies tax for loose cigarettes.

    Not exactly what I consider worthy of death penalty.


    Nobody would have had to put the cuffs on him if he hadn't been breaking the law. Personal responsibility.
    I'm this case perhaps...


    Whose fault is it that they've been arrested many times? Oh wait, he was a CRIMINAL!
    had he not been killed, what would the punishment been for this crime? A fine?


    That's just a liberal move to put people in double jeopardy. When you can't get it through the criminal courts, go for a civil trial where the burden of proof is much lower.
    More like he may not have acted criminally in this case, but he did violate, at the least procedures.

    Not the same as double jeopardy...

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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ya, you are right. His crime, not paying a few pennies tax for loose cigarettes.

    Not exactly what I consider worthy of death penalty.
    Nobody gave him the death penalty either, his own heart gave out, mostly because he was fat. Oh wait, we have to blame the cops for that, his own personal responsibility to maintain a healthy body weight doesn't matter.

    I'm this case perhaps...
    In any case. Every single case that has come up lately, where a black man is killed by a white cop, the ultimate responsibility was with the black criminal who was violating the law. Every single solitary one of them.

    had he not been killed, what would the punishment been for this crime? A fine?
    Irrelevant. If you do not want to be bothered by the police, don't break the law, period.
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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post

    Irrelevant. If you do not want to be bothered by the police, don't break the law, period.
    Stop & Frisk was a policy specifically established to harass certain communities that were populated mostly by Blacks and Latinos. So your claim of "don't want to be harassed: don't commit a crime". That's bull**** because there's no crime in being a minority despite your racist views on the matter.
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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Stop & Frisk was a policy specifically established to harass certain communities that were populated mostly by Blacks and Latinos. So your claim of "don't want to be harassed: don't commit a crime". That's bull**** because there's no crime in being a minority despite your racist views on the matter.
    It wasn't established to harass people, that's ridiculous. Like it or not, blacks in particular commit a disproportionate percentage of crimes in this country. Now you and I know that it has nothing to do with their skin color but with other conditions, but the police have to go looking for criminals where they most likely are, it makes no sense to stop and frisk people who are unlikely to have committed a crime. By the same token, men are more likely to be "harassed" than women, not because cops are sexist, but because men are more likely to be criminals, particularly violent criminals, than women.
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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Nobody gave him the death penalty either, his own heart gave out, mostly because he was fat. Oh wait, we have to blame the cops for that, his own personal responsibility to maintain a healthy body weight doesn't matter.



    In any case. Every single case that has come up lately, where a black man is killed by a white cop, the ultimate responsibility was with the black criminal who was violating the law. Every single solitary one of them.



    Irrelevant. If you do not want to be bothered by the police, don't break the law, period.
    You are starting to conflate too many small issues as one singular issue here, not sure if that is your intention.

    Ya, in these recent cases, these are not the poster children for police abuse... But to deny that there is an issue with police abusing their power really means that you have not been paying much attention.

    You may not be aware that on a typical day, just doing your normal stuff that in all likelihood you have perpetrated multiple felonies... Which is another part of the problem... However, you don't seem to think the police in any of these cases should even be held civilly accountable for the deaths they caused, so I doubt we'll agree on a whole lot here. So, just remember, your kids will have to live in a world where they might wind up dead because they caught a thug cop on the wrong day.

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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ya, in these recent cases, these are not the poster children for police abuse... But to deny that there is an issue with police abusing their power really means that you have not been paying much attention.
    And in cases where police legitimately exceed their mandate and abuse their power, they need to be prosecuted, like any other criminal, to the fullest extent of the law. However, people have been acting like police brutality is rampant and using those specific cases as "proof", when all they do is show cops doing their jobs and using lethal force against criminals who are trying to take their guns, pulling guns on them, etc. Is it a shame these people died? Absolutely. Is it their own damn fault they died? Damn straight.

    It isn't a case of the police, collectively, abusing their power, it's a case of individual officers doing so and they deserve what they get for it.

    You may not be aware that on a typical day, just doing your normal stuff that in all likelihood you have perpetrated multiple felonies... Which is another part of the problem... However, you don't seem to think the police in any of these cases should even be held civilly accountable for the deaths they caused, so I doubt we'll agree on a whole lot here. So, just remember, your kids will have to live in a world where they might wind up dead because they caught a thug cop on the wrong day.
    And if caught, you deserve to pay for your crimes. However, there are a lot of people who think they just deserve special treatment because they bothered to get out of bed in the morning. If I speed, I deserve a ticket. That I don't get a ticket most of the time is not a license to freak out when the cop pulls me over. A lot of people figure if they got away with it yesterday, they ought to get away with it forever. That's ridiculous. I honestly don't think that cops ought to be civilly prosecuted for doing their job. If they go outside of their mandate, if they violate accepted police standards, etc., fine, go after them. So many of these civil cases seem to be a second chance lottery when the cop is found to have done nothing illegal, as a means of sticking it to the man.

    And frankly, there's a lot less chance that my kids will meet a thug cop than meet a regular thug. I'd much rather have the cops there to intervene, thanks.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Why do you want the case presented everywhere but a court of law?
    Garner is the only one who didn't want his case presented in a court of law - it's why he resisted arrest.

    The officer was subjected to the criminal justice system, by way of the grand jury process - considering the political climate around police and black "suspects", prosecutors more and more are looking to grand juries to take the politics out of the decision whether or not to go to trial. In addition, the officer is subject to professional conduct investigations and hearings within the police department protocol.

    I'd reverse the question and ask you - why don't you respect the decisions of the justice system when you don't agree with them?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Do Conservatives Believe In Personal Responsibility Only When It Suits Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    What is loaded about the question? Either you believe one's actions are his own responsibility or not.
    We both know that while true, in politics things become more messy.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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