View Poll Results: Separation of Education and state

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  • Total separation from all levels of government. All education privatized.

    26 3.86%
  • Total separation except for cities.

    35 5.19%
  • Total separation except for counties.

    47 6.97%
  • Total separation except for cities and counties.

    51 7.57%
  • Total separation except for states.

    68 10.09%
  • Separation except for states and cities

    48 7.12%
  • Separation except for states and counties

    55 8.16%
  • Separation from federal government only.

    49 7.27%
  • No separation

    216 32.05%
  • Other (specify)

    79 11.72%
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Thread: Separation of Education and State

  1. #81
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    On the first point, no. They failed on every other weak lever they had to make it constitutional so they punted and devolved to the busted Commerce Clause argument. Our SCOTUS has long been a broken entity.

    And no, it only takes a lot in inner city environs. Everywhere else, well, I'll share a story of district policy with you. Georgetown, a very small, very poor rural community in California. Third grade student finds some needles in the wooded part of the playground, spends most of his recess collecting them, and then runs to the principal's office to turn them in. Was this rewarded? Was he cautioned about handling needles even with good intent? None of the above, he was expelled. No tolerance district policy and he was in possession of needles. He now attends an alternate school, his family had to move down the hill.
    My kids attended small districts in California as well, and have seen the opposite. A friend of mine was the principal at my son's middle school, and we would talk about issues such as these often. Not to mention the many and varied news stories I have read and watched over the years. I have no doubt your anecdote is true, but it is a single anecdote.

    On the first point, I was simply mocking the other poster.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  2. #82
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That's it? After all that impotent Don Quixote-style whining, that's the best you can do?
    What'd you expect, some kind of extensive discussion on existing testing policies, generalized content standards, administrative procedures, and fiscal appropriations?

    Come now. You're dealing with a libertarian on the Internet. They found a couple books on he founding fathers and have it all covered, doncha know? :P
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #83
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    A cooperative mixture.

    I have found it impossible to argue for either complete decentralization or leaving the states to their devices, nor do I have the confidence that the federal government can manage all of it.

    Private enterprise isn't as flexible as it needs to be to deal with all students in all regions of the country. States can't fiscally afford what they need to do without federal aid, and states have had a history of not always dutiful stewards of the American populace.
    I'm not onboard with a privatization of the system, but it needs to be state controlled and regulated and the feds can just go hang. There should be no national DOE and if the funds are needed in the states then stop taxing them so much. The money doesn't need to make a round trip and exclusively flow from the feds.

  4. #84
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And you? What's your prescription for a federal government that has illegally gone well beyond it's grant of power?
    Why are you asking me? I wasn't blindly whining about it.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #85
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Less ludicrous than arguing a point few on the political spectrum agree with and no governmental level follows.
    I suggest that you take a course on government and the US constitution before making such silly statements.

  6. #86
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    My kids attended small districts in California as well, and have seen the opposite. A friend of mine was the principal at my son's middle school, and we would talk about issues such as these often. Not to mention the many and varied news stories I have read and watched over the years. I have no doubt your anecdote is true, but it is a single anecdote.

    On the first point, I was simply mocking the other poster.
    Yeah, each district has it's own expulsion policies. I support the idea of there being public schooling, but have watched it increasingly circle the toilet with greater and greater federal involvement.

  7. #87
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    I suggest that you take a course on government and the US constitution before making such silly statements.
    While I tend to disagree politically with Fiddy on most everything, he is one of the best educated, most knowledgeable people on the US constitution we have here. When you have shown any level of knowledge of actual constitutional law as it is applied to day, then maybe you can start to think about maybe, possibly correcting him. But even then you will probably fail.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #88
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Separation or not, it doesn't fix whats '' wrong " with our educational system.

  9. #89
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Why are you asking me? I wasn't blindly whining about it.
    You were mocking his assessment of the situation even while agreeing that the situation exists. Just wanted to hear YOUR solution since you were calling for his.

  10. #90
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    Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I'm not onboard with a privatization of the system, but it needs to be state controlled and regulated and the feds can just go hang. There should be no national DOE and if the funds are needed in the states then stop taxing them so much. The money doesn't need to make a round trip and exclusively flow from the feds.
    The problem I have with it is that unless we find another mechanism to fund district schools, you're never going to convince the average taxpayer to pay more property taxes, nor will you get a sympathetic ear from fiscal conservatives in-state. The idea that their generosity will flow once the Feds are out of the picture seems naive at best. The DoE is also great at monitoring and pushing the needle forward on district schools doing a better job. It may take a while but they act as a good buffer. I see it frequently and have researched how because of federal pushes, district schools re conceptualizer what they are supposed to do in one circumstance or another. It's a good thing to have.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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