View Poll Results: Separation of Education and state

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  • Total separation from all levels of government. All education privatized.

    26 3.86%
  • Total separation except for cities.

    35 5.19%
  • Total separation except for counties.

    47 6.97%
  • Total separation except for cities and counties.

    51 7.57%
  • Total separation except for states.

    68 10.09%
  • Separation except for states and cities

    48 7.12%
  • Separation except for states and counties

    55 8.16%
  • Separation from federal government only.

    49 7.27%
  • No separation

    216 32.05%
  • Other (specify)

    79 11.72%
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Thread: Separation of Education and State

  1. #71
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I said that congress has no power to enact laws pertaining to how the people of the states educate their children. Are you saying that the constitution grants congress this power?
    I agree with you. Congress has no power. Now what? This is a direct question to you, Mr Federalist. Now what? What are you going to do about it to get us back to that point? Lay out your plan. Be as detailed as necessary.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  2. #72
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    Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So just to be clear, you're saying that the constitution, the supreme law of the land, the glue that hold the several states together, should be ignored?
    With *your interpretation* of the Constitution? Morally Yes. I find your interpretation morally repugnant.

    Do I believe your ideas have much merit? No. I think you are arguing this on some silly ideological premise no different from a good Marxist. You see policy as merely the extension of your broad framework and be damned if you are confronted with doing anything differently. You just won't do it, because you are hopelessly devoted to ideology over results.

    Lastly, when no one is okay with arguing the merits of completely stripping federal oversight of education? Yes. Policy requires finding the arguments of those you haven't convinced and working within their framework.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #73
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I agree with you. Congress has no power. Now what? This is a direct question to you, Mr Federalist. Now what? What are you going to do about it to get us back to that point? Lay out your plan. Be as detailed as necessary.
    I'm glad you agree that congress has no such power.

    The "now what" is that the states ignore all unconstitutional federal laws pertaining to how the people of the states educate their children.

  4. #74
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    We better alert... somebody. Why, once this flagrant abuse has been made known, it'll be stopped immediately.



    It takes a lot to get to that point in a public school.
    On the first point, no. They failed on every other weak lever they had to make it constitutional so they punted and devolved to the busted Commerce Clause argument. Our SCOTUS has long been a broken entity.

    And no, it only takes a lot in inner city environs. Everywhere else, well, I'll share a story of district policy with you. Georgetown, a very small, very poor rural community in California. Third grade student finds some needles in the wooded part of the playground, spends most of his recess collecting them, and then runs to the principal's office to turn them in. Was this rewarded? Was he cautioned about handling needles even with good intent? None of the above, he was expelled. No tolerance district policy and he was in possession of needles. He now attends an alternate school, his family had to move down the hill.

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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    With *your interpretation* of the Constitution? Morally Yes. I find your interpretation morally repugnant.
    It's not "my interpretation" of the constitution. It is the very text of the constitution. Your quarrel is not with me but with the people of the states who created their union.

    Do I believe your ideas have much merit? No. I think you are arguing this on some silly ideological premise no different from a good Marxist. You see policy as merely the extension of your broad framework and be damned if you are confronted with doing anything differently. You just won't do it, because you are hopelessly devoted to ideology over results.

    Lastly, when no one is okay with arguing the merits of completely stripping federal oversight of education? Yes. Policy requires finding the arguments of those you haven't convinced and working within their framework.
    So you are proposing that the federal government act in conflict with the constitution, which is to say act illegally?

  6. #76
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    Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    It's not "my interpretation" of the constitution. It is the very text of the constitution. Your quarrel is not with me but with the people of the states who created their union.



    So you are proposing that the federal government act in conflict with the constitution, which is to say act illegally?
    Are you ever going to discuss education? If not, I'm not going to continue playing this game.

    Libertarians are so hopeless at stating on topic or dealing with reality.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #77
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I agree with you. Congress has no power. Now what? This is a direct question to you, Mr Federalist. Now what? What are you going to do about it to get us back to that point? Lay out your plan. Be as detailed as necessary.
    I'm glad you agree that congress has no such power.

    The "now what" is that the states ignore all unconstitutional federal laws pertaining to how the people of the states educate their children.
    That's it? After all that impotent Don Quixote-style whining, that's the best you can do?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  8. #78
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Are you ever going to discuss education? If not, I'm not going to continue playing this game.

    Libertarians are so hopeless at stating on topic or dealing with reality.
    That's what the thread is about, federal government involvement in education. You apparently are for it both feet in?

  9. #79
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That's it? After all that impotent Don Quixote-style whining, that's the best you can do?
    And you? What's your prescription for a federal government that has illegally gone well beyond it's grant of power?

  10. #80
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    Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's what the thread is about, federal government involvement in education. You apparently are for it both feet in?
    A cooperative mixture.

    I have found it impossible to argue for either complete decentralization or leaving the states to their devices, nor do I have the confidence that the federal government can manage all of it.

    Private enterprise isn't as flexible as it needs to be to deal with all students in all regions of the country. States can't fiscally afford what they need to do without federal aid, and states have had a history of not always dutiful stewards of the American populace.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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