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Separation of Education and State

Separation of Education and state

  • Total separation from all levels of government. All education privatized.

    Votes: 4 17.4%

  • Total separation except for cities.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total separation except for counties.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total separation except for cities and counties.

    Votes: 1 4.3%

  • Total separation except for states.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Separation except for states and cities

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Separation except for states and counties

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Separation from federal government only.

    Votes: 3 13.0%

  • No separation

    Votes: 13 56.5%

  • Other (specify)

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Total voters
    23
Risky Thicket said:
State or federal education provided for free. If you want religious training or prayer or your favorite religious sayings posted on the wall enroll your children in a religious school.

Post secondary education should also be state or federally funded for those who qualify. Entrance requirements for most universities should be raised and maintained. All funded post secondary institutions must be accredited by the National Association of Colleges and Schools.

I see the value of online post secondary education. Generally I am not a fan, however.
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NO, it is NOT for free. We pay for that. Do you think money just falls off the education tree? :mrgreen:
 
clownboy said:
You've got that wrong. Sort of backwards. No one is wanting to send their children to private schools to destroy the public schools. It's because the public schools have already been destroyed. And folks are paying those tax dollars right now to support an educational system that is not working for them. Why can't we spend that money we pay for the education of our children on, you know, the education of our children.
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the Republicans in my state cut public education by hundreds of millions of dollars in the mid 2000s and diverted a lot of money to private schools. i don't support that.
 
Helix said:
the Republicans in my state cut public education by hundreds of millions of dollars in the mid 2000s and diverted a lot of money to private schools. i don't support that.
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Of course they did, they want everyone to go to religious schools that are not bound to separate church and state. All they are doing is trying to indoctrinate more kids into their mind cult.
 
I think it needs to be separated except that the government has to set the minimum standards of education and use approved school materials/methods and do spot checks to verify this.
 
Helix said:
the Republicans in my state cut public education by hundreds of millions of dollars in the mid 2000s and diverted a lot of money to private schools. i don't support that.
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And how exactly did they divert money to the private schools?
 
clownboy said:
So, the money we pay to educate our state's children can only be used to send our children to underperforming public schools?
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Schools under perform because of under funding. If the funding isn't based on local property taxes, then schools won't under perform(Ideally)
 
Cephus said:
Of course they did, they want everyone to go to religious schools that are not bound to separate church and state. All they are doing is trying to indoctrinate more kids into their mind cult.
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Nonsense. Btw, CA is ranked 39th.
 
clownboy said:
Nonsense. Btw, CA is ranked 39th.
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And used to be near the top before the liberals took over. But California isn't trying to push vouchers and getting kids into private schools.
 
Fruityfact said:
Schools under perform because of under funding. If the funding isn't based on local property taxes, then schools won't under perform(Ideally)
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That is absolute bull****. And that was the weakness in the report you posted. Oregon pays as much per student as some of the top performers do. And yet since we came in number 33 in performance the report listed us as low paying/low performing. CA pays as much per student as the top performers and yet they rank in as number 39.

In fact, the private schools in our area spend even less and outperform the public schools.
 
Fruityfact said:
Schools under perform because of under funding. If the funding isn't based on local property taxes, then schools won't under perform(Ideally)
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Schools underperform because they are filled with students not interested in learning. This is almost always a social issue, not an educational issue.
 
Cephus said:
And used to be near the top before the liberals took over. But California isn't trying to push vouchers and getting kids into private schools.
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Why do you have a problem with that? Everyone gets the same voucher amount per child, money that came from them for education in the first place, and then they are free to shop schools and educational environments that best suit their children.

Btw, before the liberals took over we had regular prayer in public schools in CA.
 
clownboy said:
That is absolute bull****. And that was the weakness in the report you posted. Oregon pays as much per student as some of the top performers do. And yet since we came in number 33 in performance the report listed us as low paying/low performing. CA pays as much per student as the top performers and yet they rank in as number 39.

In fact, the private schools in our area spend even less and outperform the public schools.
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Dude, you pick out two outliers, and ignore the complete trend...LITERALLY A LINEAR TREND staring you in the face.
 
clownboy said:
Why do you have a problem with that? Everyone gets the same voucher amount per child, money that came from them for education in the first place, and then they are free to shop schools and educational environments that best suit their children.
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I have a problem with it because it doesn't actually solve the problem, it just segregates the problem and pretends it doesn't exist. It's like saying we have a problem with crime, but instead of trying to figure out why we have crime and working to actually solve it, we'll just take all the criminals and throw them on an island somewhere and forget they exist. It isn't a solution.
 
Cephus said:
I have a problem with it because it doesn't actually solve the problem, it just segregates the problem and pretends it doesn't exist. It's like saying we have a problem with crime, but instead of trying to figure out why we have crime and working to actually solve it, we'll just take all the criminals and throw them on an island somewhere and forget they exist. It isn't a solution.
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We don't know it won't solve the problem. We've continually tried method after method to address the under performance of public schools. They've all failed. It very well may solve at least part of the problem. At least this way our motivated parents with motivated children will at least be receiving a good education. The public schools have tried to do this with magnet schools and they are the one thing that has worked, are intensely popular.
 
clownboy said:
We don't know it won't solve the problem. We've continually tried method after method to address the under performance of public schools. They've all failed. It very well may solve at least part of the problem. At least this way our motivated parents with motivated children will at least be receiving a good education. The public schools have tried to do this with magnet schools and they are the one thing that has worked, are intensely popular.
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How is it going to solve the problem if it doesn't even address it? All it does is take kids who aren't ruining the curve already and moving them somewhere else. It isn't doing a damn thing for kids who aren't making it in school now. Public schools haven't all failed, that's a ridiculous statement to make. Public schools in poor neighborhoods have failed, but not doing anything to address why they've failed isn't going to fix them. Any plan that doesn't try to make things better for *ALL* students isn't a plan worth pursuing.
 
Fruityfact said:
Dude, you pick out two outliers, and ignore the complete trend...LITERALLY A LINEAR TREND staring you in the face.
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What so-called "linear trend" am I not seeing? And CA/OR are not outliers. Look at any in the list who are in the 30s, then look at how much ADA they pay, you won't find a trend. What you'll find is that ADA, above a certain level as compared against COL, isn't a reliable factor in judging public school performance.
 
Cephus said:
How is it going to solve the problem if it doesn't even address it? All it does is take kids who aren't ruining the curve already and moving them somewhere else. It isn't doing a damn thing for kids who aren't making it in school now. Public schools haven't all failed, that's a ridiculous statement to make. Public schools in poor neighborhoods have failed, but not doing anything to address why they've failed isn't going to fix them. Any plan that doesn't try to make things better for *ALL* students isn't a plan worth pursuing.
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Again, not true. We have public schools that perform poorly in middle class neighborhoods as well. We have public schools here that perform poorly in well to do neighborhoods. We have public schools that perform well in poor neighborhoods. And what the hell does the neighborhood have to do with funding? It's the STATE that funds the schools and every student in that state gets the same allowance, the same ADA.

And measures taken within the public school system don't address ALL students. Not everyone can get accepted in the magnet schools.

Again, the voucher system does address ALL students. It allows all students to be shoppers for their education dollars.
 
clownboy said:
And how exactly did they divert money to the private schools?
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basically, they first cut education funding by three hundred million dollars. then they enacted a voucher system to pull kids out of public schools so that they could go to charter schools. then as the public schools get less and less funding, they do even worse, prompting more parents to pull their kids out of them.
 
Separating education from the state is just as important as separating churches from the state.

Who is responsible for educating your children? You are.

Should you be forced to subsidize other people's children? Hell, No!!!!

Do you want the state indoctrinating your children? Do you want them to be taught to be good little serfs, work their butts off, pay excessive taxes, and never complain about losing their God-given individual rights? Hell No!!!!!!!

How are poor people going to educate their children? Charity (in cases of genuine hardship). Technology (You can educate your children on a shoestring, if you use a little common sense--Check out khanacademy.org--free education right on the web). Family planning (The most important thing)--If you can't afford to raise children, don't keep downloading them!!!!!!!

Bottom line. It's your responsibility. It's yours alone. It's not mine. It's not your neighbors'. It's not the state's.
 
ronpaulvoter said:
Separating education from the state is just as important as separating churches from the state.

Who is responsible for educating your children? You are.

Should you be forced to subsidize other people's children? Hell, No!!!!

Do you want the state indoctrinating your children? Do you want them to be taught to be good little serfs, work their butts off, pay excessive taxes, and never complain about losing their God-given individual rights? Hell No!!!!!!!

How are poor people going to educate their children? Charity (in cases of genuine hardship). Technology (You can educate your children on a shoestring, if you use a little common sense--Check out khanacademy.org--free education right on the web). Family planning (The most important thing)--If you can't afford to raise children, don't keep downloading them!!!!!!!

Bottom line. It's your responsibility. It's yours alone. It's not mine. It's not your neighbors'. It's not the state's.
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This is why Ron Paul fans have no business doing anything in public lie.
 
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