View Poll Results: Separation of Education and state

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  • Total separation from all levels of government. All education privatized.

    26 3.86%
  • Total separation except for cities.

    35 5.19%
  • Total separation except for counties.

    47 6.97%
  • Total separation except for cities and counties.

    51 7.57%
  • Total separation except for states.

    68 10.09%
  • Separation except for states and cities

    48 7.12%
  • Separation except for states and counties

    55 8.16%
  • Separation from federal government only.

    49 7.27%
  • No separation

    216 32.05%
  • Other (specify)

    79 11.72%
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Thread: Separation of Education and State

  1. #41
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    How long are you going to ask these Don Quixote-like questions as if they're actually relevant?
    I don't consider the supreme law of the land to be irrelevant.

  2. #42
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Yes.......once the feds became involved, public schools became more concerned with teaching political correctness then reading, writing, and arithmetic. They are more concerned about a child who bites his pop tart into the rough shape of a pistol then they are about graduation rates.
    You do realize the federal government has been involved with schools since, well, since before we even where a country. The first Department of Education in the US dates back to1867, but federal involvement predated that significantly. Probably a bad idea to just make **** up and hope no one knows history. You might actually try documenting your claims. Here is one of mine: Land Ordinance of 1785 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  3. #43
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The only reason that is true is that private schools can kick out all of the disruptive elements whereas public schools cannot. When you self-select only the best and brightest (and wealthiest), you get better test results but it's biased, not a fair representation. When everyone is playing by the same rules, let me know.
    Nice attempt, but doesn't comport with reality in this case. The school has all sorts of students, the majority from anything but wealthy folk. Physically and intellectually disabled students in greater number than I've ever seen mainstreamed in public schools. In fact my youngest has been a help buddy for three years now, since first grade.

    They are playing by exactly the same rules the state sets for operating an educational institution.

  4. #44
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Name calling is rarely sufficient to justify the violation of the supreme law of the land.
    I'm interested in producing improvements in the school systems that is both politically viable and demonstrative of being effective. I'm not interested in rehashing Constitutional arguments with a man that prefers to dine with 18th century men with his imagination than deal with what is in front of him.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #45
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    How do you feel about a separation of education and all levels of government. Would you prefer...

    1. A total separation.

    2. A partial separation.

    3. A guaranteed state-provided education for everybody.

    4. Something else (specify).
    Education is a private good for the most part and should not generally be run by government. If a county or city decides it wants to have a school on its dole, it should be allowed to, but it should be none the less run privately. The government could ascertain the level of performance by holding exams on a voluntary basis of participation.

  6. #46
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I'm interested in producing improvements in the school systems that is both politically viable and demonstrative of being effective. I'm not interested in rehashing Constitutional arguments with a man that prefers to dine with 18th century men with his imagination than deal with what is in front of him.
    Then get involved in state politics. Providing education is a state power, not one given by the states to their union.

  7. #47
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Nice attempt, but doesn't comport with reality in this case. The school has all sorts of students, the majority from anything but wealthy folk. Physically and intellectually disabled students in greater number than I've ever seen mainstreamed in public schools. In fact my youngest has been a help buddy for three years now, since first grade.

    They are playing by exactly the same rules the state sets for operating an educational institution.
    Hardly. See, I grew up in all private schools and if you didn't make the grades, if you misbehaved, if you did anything they didn't like, you were out on your ass. Now I can't speak to your particular school, but for pretty much every one I've encountered, they all work the same way. It isn't that they have better teaching methods, they just congregate the best students in the same place.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You do realize the federal government has been involved with schools since, well, since before we even where a country. The first Department of Education in the US dates back to1867, but federal involvement predated that significantly. Probably a bad idea to just make **** up and hope no one knows history. You might actually try documenting your claims. Here is one of mine: Land Ordinance of 1785 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Perhaps you should do a bit more reading before you try that victory lap.

    United States Department of Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Establishment[edit]

    A previous Department of Education was created in 1867 but was soon demoted to an Office in 1868.[3][4] As an agency not represented in the president's cabinet, it quickly became a relatively minor bureau in the Department of the Interior. In 1939, the bureau was transferred to the Federal Security Agency, where it was renamed the Office of Education. In 1953, the Federal Security Agency was upgraded to cabinet-level status as the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

    In 1979, President Carter advocated for creating a cabinet-level Department of Education.[5] Carter's plan was to transfer most of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare's education-related functions to the Department of Education.[5] Carter also planned to transfer the education-related functions of the departments of Defense, Justice, Housing and Urban Development, and Agriculture, as well as a few other federal entities.[5] Among the federal education-related programs that were not proposed to be transferred were Headstart, the Department of Agriculture's school lunch and nutrition programs, the Department of the Interior's Indian education programs, and the Department of Labor's education and training programs.[5]

    Upgrading Education to cabinet level status in 1979 was opposed by many in the Republican Party, who saw the department as unconstitutional, arguing that the Constitution doesn't mention education, and deemed it an unnecessary and illegal federal bureaucratic intrusion into local affairs. However many liberals and Democrats see the department as constitutional under the Commerce Clause, and that the funding role of the Department is constitutional under the Taxing and Spending Clause. The National Education Association supported the bill, while the American Federation of Teachers opposed it.[6]

    As of 1979, the Office of Education had 3,000 employees and an annual budget of $12 billion.[7] Congress appropriated to the Department of Education an annual budget of $14.2 billion and 17,000 employees when establishing the Department of Education.[8]

    On March 23, 2007, President George W. Bush signed into law H.R. 584, which designates the ED Headquarters building as the Lyndon Baines Johnson Department of Education Building.[9]

  9. #49
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Then get involved in state politics. Providing education is a state power, not one given by the states to their union.
    Already ahead of you. I already do stuff at the state level with education policy and research.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  10. #50
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Already ahead of you. I already do stuff at the state level with education policy and research.
    Excellent. Your state government is the appropriate venue. Congress has no power to enact laws pertaining to how the people of the states educate their children.

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