View Poll Results: Separation of Education and state

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  • Total separation from all levels of government. All education privatized.

    26 3.86%
  • Total separation except for cities.

    35 5.19%
  • Total separation except for counties.

    47 6.97%
  • Total separation except for cities and counties.

    51 7.57%
  • Total separation except for states.

    68 10.09%
  • Separation except for states and cities

    48 7.12%
  • Separation except for states and counties

    55 8.16%
  • Separation from federal government only.

    49 7.27%
  • No separation

    216 32.05%
  • Other (specify)

    79 11.72%
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Thread: Separation of Education and State

  1. #11
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Depending on the voucher program vouchers only last for so long and then the parent has to start paying directly. The other problem is that such a voucher program assumes that there is a min/max amount to educate children. Plain fact of the matter is that each child differs in their ability and learning ability. Some may cost more, some may cost less.

    That said, I think I have a better solution than either vouchers OR giving money to schools directly. Instead require that each school have a group that is elected and is totally made up of parents who have children in the school that they are representing. No one else may be a part of this council. If the school needs money they have to request it from this "council". This council also requisitions money from the government for general upkeep and for any supplies needed. (teachers no longer have to pay for supplies). There's a bit more to this but I've got to go...dinner is almost ready and it smells GOOOOOOOOOD!
    Then have the vouchers cover everything. Problem solved, and schools that do poorly go the way of the dodo bird.

  2. #12
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    To me the problem is the kids who don't want to be there and who disrupt the educations of those who do want to be there. Paying for butt-filled seats, whether the state pays for attendance or provides vouchers, only exacerbates the problem. It encourages the schools to chase the money at the expense of the education.

    I say school should be state funded, but only the state level on down. No federal. Also, give a school a budget for the year, and they get that amount no matter what. Kick out the troublemakers, allowing the kids who want to learn the chance to actually learn.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #13
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    Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    To me the problem is the kids who don't want to be there and who disrupt the educations of those who do want to be there. Paying for butt-filled seats, whether the state pays for attendance or provides vouchers, only exacerbates the problem. It encourages the schools to chase the money at the expense of the education.

    I say school should be state funded, but only the state level on down. No federal. Also, give a school a budget for the year, and they get that amount no matter what. Kick out the troublemakers, allowing the kids who want to learn the chance to actually learn.
    States have a difficulty meeting the fiscal needs of students as it is, truth be told. Furthermore, much (certainly not all) of the internal development you get comes from federal grants. There's no way around it, but the states are inadequate to raise the kind of dollars needed unless you want a lot higher taxes (and at the local and state level small government conservatives keep firing away about them taxes, make no mistake).

    That's a lot of dough and it's not going to come out of thin air.

    Second of all, kicking kids out of school only encourages a group of troublemakers and an underclass to exist. If you want to decrease crime, drugs, and dependency, you make sure they are in that classroom.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #14
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    To me the problem is the kids who don't want to be there and who disrupt the educations of those who do want to be there. Paying for butt-filled seats, whether the state pays for attendance or provides vouchers, only exacerbates the problem. It encourages the schools to chase the money at the expense of the education.

    I say school should be state funded, but only the state level on down. No federal. Also, give a school a budget for the year, and they get that amount no matter what. Kick out the troublemakers, allowing the kids who want to learn the chance to actually learn.
    Some serious problems exist in your "ideal" education funding model:

    1) Assuming that public school funding is based on per pupil (it would be silly to fund a school with 100 students at the same level as a school with 2,000 students), then every student "kicked out" results in a loss of funding. That is a not an incentive to weed out trouble makers, simply to separate them into slower paced classes (as they now do by placing the better students into AP classes).

    2) If funding is still based on a warm chair count, rather than actual educational improvement attained by the students, then why not just hire good baby sitters at a much lower cost than that required for good teachers?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You left out the tyranny and slavery buzzwords.
    I don't know those.

    I just prefer no socialized schooling, whether city, county, state, or federal, since providing such schooling is dependent upon the initiation of aggression.

  6. #16
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Some serious problems exist in your "ideal" education funding model:

    1) Assuming that public school funding is based on per pupil (it would be silly to fund a school with 100 students at the same level as a school with 2,000 students), then every student "kicked out" results in a loss of funding. That is a not an incentive to weed out trouble makers, simply to separate them into slower paced classes (as they now do by placing the better students into AP classes).

    2) If funding is still based on a warm chair count, rather than actual educational improvement attained by the students, then why not just hire good baby sitters at a much lower cost than that required for good teachers?
    You're so far off from what I said that I don't know where to start.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #17
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Why would total separation of all governments make schools privatized?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    How do you feel about a separation of education and all levels of government. Would you prefer...

    1. A total separation.

    2. A partial separation.

    3. A guaranteed state-provided education for everybody.

    4. Something else (specify).

  8. #18
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Not only should the government be involved in schooling, we need, badly, to figure out how to improve those government funded schools. I would hope the obvious benefits of an educated society would be clear. It serves the economy, it serves the stability of the country, it serves the defense of the country, it is a solid benefit across the board. Some things are best done through private enterprise, but for some things government should take a solid role.

    What we need is to improve out educational system. Note that improve does not necessarily mean expand, but to figure out how to do what we do, better. We know, from painful experience, that just throwing money at the problem does not work, so what we should be doing to my mind is looking at Finland, looking at South Korea, Looking at Japan, at Hong Kong and the Netherlands, and figuring out what they do that we can do, taking what will work for us from each, and incorporating it. This will probably in the end end up costing us more money, but the return on that investment in a more flexible economy and work force, more technological innovation, more skilled leaders more than makes up for that cost to my mind.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    I would have said total separation, except that this turned into a libertarian cluster-**** and somehow, education being privatized became part of the equation. I absolutely do not want privatized education, I just want the government at all levels out of the religion business.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #20
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    No separation whatsoever.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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