View Poll Results: Separation of Education and state

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  • Total separation from all levels of government. All education privatized.

    26 3.86%
  • Total separation except for cities.

    35 5.19%
  • Total separation except for counties.

    47 6.97%
  • Total separation except for cities and counties.

    51 7.57%
  • Total separation except for states.

    68 10.09%
  • Separation except for states and cities

    48 7.12%
  • Separation except for states and counties

    55 8.16%
  • Separation from federal government only.

    49 7.27%
  • No separation

    216 32.05%
  • Other (specify)

    79 11.72%
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Thread: Separation of Education and State

  1. #131
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I agree, I've always found Fiddytree to be a poster well worth listening to in the past.
    He reminds me of Donsotherland1, while I may not agree, I have to respect the opinion and the intellect behind the opinion. Or an example from out in the world would be George Will.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #132
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Please read the choices. The first is NO government involvement in any shape or form. No where is there anything limiting the discussion to federal involvement.

    Please keep up and be aware of all the facts before you imply anyone is stupid.
    Before you go that route you might actually read the choices:

    Total separation from all levels of government. All education privatized.
    Total separation except for cities.
    Total separation except for counties.
    Total separation except for cities and counties.
    Total separation except for states.

    Separation except for states and cities
    Separation except for states and counties
    Separation from federal government only
    .
    No separation
    Other (specify)
    And in what part of the post you quoted did I imply you were stupid?

  3. #133
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    How about no.
    Does that mean you are unable to show the text in the constitution that permits such an exercise of power over the people of the states, or does it mean you simply wish to disregard the supreme law of the land?

  4. #134
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I see that the posters in this thread like the idea of living in a country full of uneducated people. If not a democratic government to ensure the quality and funding of education for all, then who?
    We all know you like the status quo of teaching students useless information, support for common core and the corruption caused by teachers unions. Carry on.
    Last edited by American; 12-27-14 at 08:44 PM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  5. #135
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I see that the posters in this thread like the idea of living in a country full of uneducated people. If not a democratic government to ensure the quality and funding of education for all, then who?
    There are those who value education but also eschew the idea of using violence to achieve their desired ends. It is not just to use violence to acquire what one desires.

  6. #136
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    We all know you like the status quo of teaching students useless information, support for common core and the corruption caused by teachers unions. Carry on.
    But he has a point that you're ignoring. If the purpose of education is to teach facts to children, then we do need a strong central authority which can guarantee that the same facts are taught to kids in Tennessee that are taught in Oregon, the same concepts are taught in New York as are taught in Texas. Facts don't change with geography. We have, unfortunately, seen that a lot of localities don't like some facts, they want to change the facts, which is why I entirely disagree with putting the schools in the hands of the locals, who often have no education and no means of making a rational determination of what is actually true. I'm wholly with you to get rid of the unions and the liberal lean, but that doesn't mean we exchange it for the neo-conservative lean that a lot of communities seem to have. It's not about politics, it's not about religion, it's about education and what is true is true, no matter what you believe.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #137
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    For much of this country's history, public schools, financed mostly through local property taxes, did the lion's share of giving Americans a basic education. And they did a good job--good enough to guarantee a literate work force and a population that knew enough to sustain our democratic way of life. Even well into the 1960's, public schools in the U.S. were generally pretty good. The U.S. stood head and shoulders above the world in all sorts of achievements--but then the long decline into collectivism and acceptance of mediocrity began to set in.

    I really believe an average, rural person with a high school education, living in mid-20th century America, was, overall, smarter in the ways that count than most college graduates today. It's been said that nothing makes a person foolish like going to graduate school, and there is a lot of truth in that. All those degrees, all that cabinet-level federal involvement, all that state and federal money--and we end up with a nation made up more and more of either overeducated pasteheads, Homer Simpson types, or underclass idiots and thugs who are good for nothing but sponging off the labor of other people and breeding more just like them.

    It's no accident that this embarrassment of a President came along when he did, or that he was re-elected. He is the man for our times--and God help this country.
    Last edited by matchlight; 12-27-14 at 09:13 PM.

  8. #138
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But he has a point that you're ignoring. If the purpose of education is to teach facts to children, then we do need a strong central authority which can guarantee that the same facts are taught to kids in Tennessee that are taught in Oregon, the same concepts are taught in New York as are taught in Texas. Facts don't change with geography. We have, unfortunately, seen that a lot of localities don't like some facts, they want to change the facts, which is why I entirely disagree with putting the schools in the hands of the locals, who often have no education and no means of making a rational determination of what is actually true. I'm wholly with you to get rid of the unions and the liberal lean, but that doesn't mean we exchange it for the neo-conservative lean that a lot of communities seem to have. It's not about politics, it's not about religion, it's about education and what is true is true, no matter what you believe.
    Well guess what, they aren't learning. And people like Pasch don't want one iota to change, because they may reduce the authority of the federal government or the unions which is paramount to teaching children anything useful they may need. The public school system has been proven to be a joke after years of experience. The poorest students are the urban ones, which leftist howl about the most, yet have done zero to fix. Always yammering about the money, which nothing but a code word for power and union support.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #139
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Well guess what, they aren't learning. And people like Pasch don't want one iota to change, because they may reduce the authority of the federal government or the unions which is paramount to teaching children anything useful they may need. The public school system has been proven to be a joke after years of experience. The poorest students are the urban ones, which leftist howl about the most, yet have done zero to fix. Always yammering about the money, which nothing but a code word for power and union support.
    Whether they are learning or not is really irrelevant to this discussion. The idea that just because things aren't perfect right now, we should throw the whole system out and adopt another system which is just as prone to abuse, perhaps even more prone to abuse, is absurd. I don't care what Pasch says because he's not in charge of education. We know the current system is screwed up. Let's fix it. The absurd libertarian idea of just throwing it out the window and going with something that has absolutely no controls whatsoever is pathetically ridiculous.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #140
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Whether they are learning or not is really irrelevant to this discussion. The idea that just because things aren't perfect right now, we should throw the whole system out and adopt another system which is just as prone to abuse, perhaps even more prone to abuse, is absurd. I don't care what Pasch says because he's not in charge of education. We know the current system is screwed up. Let's fix it. The absurd libertarian idea of just throwing it out the window and going with something that has absolutely no controls whatsoever is pathetically ridiculous.
    Congress has no power to interfere with the education policy of any of the several states.

    You, as a citizen of your sovereign state, have the power to influence your state's education policies.

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