View Poll Results: Separation of Education and state

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  • Total separation from all levels of government. All education privatized.

    26 3.86%
  • Total separation except for cities.

    35 5.19%
  • Total separation except for counties.

    47 6.97%
  • Total separation except for cities and counties.

    51 7.57%
  • Total separation except for states.

    68 10.09%
  • Separation except for states and cities

    48 7.12%
  • Separation except for states and counties

    55 8.16%
  • Separation from federal government only.

    49 7.27%
  • No separation

    216 32.05%
  • Other (specify)

    79 11.72%
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Thread: Separation of Education and State

  1. #101
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    Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Have you seen some of the new schools being built? If money is an issue, this is one place we need to reassess. I don't suggest we cram kids in one-room wooden school houses, but at the same time we really shouldn't be spending so much money on sprawling campuses with amenities that look wonderful but often go unused.
    Yep. In my area there are schools being built all the time. Nevertheless, when it comes to staffing, materials, internal studies, and so on, funds continue to play a huge part of what they will be able to do. That's why states are usually reactive to federal interests. On some of the big things they aren't always be behind. They can in fact slightly precede the federal government in much of the legal language and requirements. The Feds can afford to throw money at a problem when states cannot.

    But I will add that states are already strapped for cash on the students that take the most resources. The Feds hadn't kept their end of the bargain, leaving the states to do most of the work....and they aren't really succeeding without strain. That's why I'm even more skeptical about decentralization .
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #102
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Are you ever going to discuss education? If not, I'm not going to continue playing this game.

    Libertarians are so hopeless at stating on topic or dealing with reality.
    Sure, if you live in Pennsylvania, I'd be happy to discus how our sovereign state ought to handle education.

    However, when the states came together to form their union, they granted it no power to meddle in the education of their children.

  3. #103
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That's it? After all that impotent Don Quixote-style whining, that's the best you can do?
    Do you oppose the rule of law?

  4. #104
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Sure, if you live in Pennsylvania, I'd be happy to discus how our sovereign state ought to handle education.

    However, when the states came together to form their union, they granted it no power to meddle in the education of their children.
    So the union cannot act on behalf of the Interest's of the states that form the union.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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  5. #105
    Angry Former GOP Voter
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    Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Sure, if you live in Pennsylvania, I'd be happy to discus how our sovereign state ought to handle education.

    However, when the states came together to form their union, they granted it no power to meddle in the education of their children.
    Are federal grants considered useful to your state Dept of Education? Talked to anyone from there about how they see the relative usefulness or irritation the DoE provides? How's their new indicator development going?
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 12-27-14 at 07:13 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  6. #106
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    So the union cannot act on behalf of the Interest's of the states that form the union.
    In all but a couple areas granted them the power to do so by Constitution, that is correct.

  7. #107
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Are federal grants considered useful to your state Dept of Education? Talked to anyone from there about how they see the relative usefulness or irritation the DoE provides? How's their indicator 17 going?
    Yes, blackmail works very well at this level. I take your money and in order for you to have some of it back for necessities you have to follow my rules.

  8. #108
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    I really should not have to explain it to you. Two examples are guns and bibles. The zero tolerance policy on guns is insane. If a child points his finger at another student and says: "bang", the child can be suspended or expelled offered mental health counseling. Same if a child bites his pop tart into the shape of a gun...or scribbles a picture of a gun. Most big city public schools also treat the Holy Bible as contraband. That is indoctrination.
    So yes, it's your conservative hot button topics. Nobody should have a gun in school. The thing about the finger is stupid, but let's be honest, that actually seldom happens. It was high profile once or twice, but it's hardly standard procedure. It's an overzealous attempt to keep the kids from hurting each other. It has nothing to do with the politics of the situation.

    As for bibles, the first amendment says no mixing government and religion. You can have all the bibles you like in a private school, but you leave religion out of public schools. That means any religion or any take on religion. Means no Ramayana just as much as no bible. No discussion of religion at all, pro or con. Except for relevant history or in a comparative religion setting, but then it's treated academically, not about its truth or falsity. It also means that the science curriculum doesn't include religious objections to settled science. It just includes the science.

    So no, there's no indoctrination. There's just a few things that annoy you.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  9. #109
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    So the union cannot act on behalf of the Interest's of the states that form the union.
    The union can only exercise the powers that the states gave it.

  10. #110
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    Re: Separation of Education and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Are federal grants considered useful to your state Dept of Education? Talked to anyone from there about how they see the relative usefulness or irritation the DoE provides? How's their new indicator development going?
    No constitutional authority for such grants.

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