View Poll Results: Who's right?

Voters
270. You may not vote on this poll
  • Your black friend is right.

    137 50.74%
  • The cop is right.

    0 0%
  • Both are right.

    31 11.48%
  • Both are right... and wrong.

    56 20.74%
  • Both are wrong.

    18 6.67%
  • Other (please explain)

    28 10.37%
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Thread: Who's right?

  1. #31
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Do you deny this fact?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  2. #32
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    Re: Who's right?

    I don't have to walk in someone's shoes to understand their situation when it comes to race.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  3. #33
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    A Black cop may get both, or has the greatest chance of grasping both.

    But, the cop part of him, if it's strong enough, it could compromise his ability to feel what it's like to be Black while American.

    Politics has a tendency to polarize and blind, so many are not going to grasp the "what it's like".

    That's just the way it is.

    Being Black in America has roots in a lot of pain, and, much of that reminder continues in the many metropolitan poverty enclaves.

    "We shall overcome .. someday" remains the mantra of many in these communities, and that someday is simply not here yet for them.

    This suffering while Black in America while hoping to overcome but continuing to fall short has become a philosophical foundation for many.

    Sometimes they cope with suffering by breaking the rules.

    Then they're at odds with the cops.

    It will be difficult for them to see the cops as "good" when the cops are just trying to thwart their attempt to get some relief.

    The cops are then seen as people who are the current suppressors of their attempt to, once again, overcome.

    There is no real solution for this.

    Somehow, each party must be able to cry the others tears.

    That kind of empathy will only occur if both sides suffer and each side sees that suffering.

    Other than drastic population reduction to lessen poverty and thereby let those remaining "overcome", until the overcoming occurs, there's really no good solution that doesn't first augment the suffering on the side that "appears" to be suffering the least.
    So eloquently put. This is why incidents such as Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown and Eric Gordon are so important to people especially Blacks and Black communities in particularly because the "suppression" of our collective abilities to "over come" can easily be seen in the very fact that "legalism" doesn't seem to be applied fairly and equally to the oppressed. These cop killings whether justified or not are seen by many Blacks as an indictment on law enforcement that "they really don't care about us" and the grand jury verdicts were viewed as validating a continual "slap in the face" to Blacks. It's a collective realization that for hundreds of years "they" who are part of the system of things, "they" who make the rules, continue to "get away with treating 'us' like garbage, like 'our' lives mean nothing to 'them'". This is the collective outcry that is the result of the accepted verdicts that came out of the legal system that 'protected and validated the actions of law enforcement" that resulted in the lost of each of the aforementioned Black men.

    Until we're all able to take a step back and listen to the outcry from each side, we'll never heal from these tragic situations. That's what debate is all about, having the open and honest dialog no matter how painful it may be at first. But believe me, eventually all sides do begin to hear and better understand what the other side is saying as long as the dialog continues and meaningful solutions come of it that all sides can accept and live with.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  4. #34
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    Re: Who's right?

    I voted "they're both right, and wrong." It's extremely difficult for the average white American to get a first-person look at how racism in America operates unless they somehow are able to take a pill that turns their skin black, and that's not gonna happen.

    As far as the cops go, it's also extremely difficult to judge a person without having been in a cop's shoes. That being said, people who are suppose to keep us safe and police our communities are and should be held (both by the public and by themselves) to extremely high standards. When a cop ****s up and innocent lives are lost, it is indeed grounds for criticism (and perhaps also an indictment of police forces and local governments who aren't doing enough training or perhaps don't have the funds for it). However I also believe that a lot of the anti-police rhetoric does indeed fail to take into account how tough and stressful their jobs are compared to the average joe.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I voted "they're both right, and wrong." It's extremely difficult for the average white American to get a first-person look at how racism in America operates unless they somehow are able to take a pill that turns their skin black, and that's not gonna happen.

    As far as the cops go, it's also extremely difficult to judge a person without having been in a cop's shoes. That being said, people who are suppose to keep us safe and police our communities are and should be held (both by the public and by themselves) to extremely high standards. When a cop ****s up and innocent lives are lost, it is indeed grounds for criticism (and perhaps also an indictment of police forces and local governments who aren't doing enough training or perhaps don't have the funds for it). However I also believe that a lot of the anti-police rhetoric does indeed fail to take into account how tough and stressful their jobs are compared to the average joe.
    Excellent post. I think you were very fair and even-handed in your assessment.

    My only quibble, and it's minor, is that I think part of the cop issue is the cop mentality. The "us vs them", for lack of a better phrase. Whether that requires 'more' training or 'different' training, I'm not sure.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  6. #36
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    A black friend of mine says that non-black people cannot possibly understand what black people go through as they have not "walked in my shoes".

    This morning on the radio I heard a NY cop being interviewed say, "Until you have put on a uniform and a badge, and strapped on a gun, and walked a beat, you have no right to criticize me for how I do my job." (paraphrasing, but that's pretty close)

    Both, obviously, saying that unless you've 'been there, done that', you don't know what you're talking about and your opinion is irrelevant.

    Who's right?

    This question is specifically about race relations, not a general concept.


    You can understand things without doing/being them to a point. It's true it isn't the same as living it... but saying you can't even have a worthy OPINION if you haven't BEEN an X, Y or Z is taking it too far.

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  7. #37
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So eloquently put. This is why incidents such as Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown and Eric Gordon are so important to people especially Blacks and Black communities in particularly because the "suppression" of our collective abilities to "over come" can easily be seen in the very fact that "legalism" doesn't seem to be applied fairly and equally to the oppressed. These cop killings whether justified or not are seen by many Blacks as an indictment on law enforcement that "they really don't care about us" and the grand jury verdicts were viewed as validating a continual "slap in the face" to Blacks. It's a collective realization that for hundreds of years "they" who are part of the system of things, "they" who make the rules, continue to "get away with treating 'us' like garbage, like 'our' lives mean nothing to 'them'". This is the collective outcry that is the result of the accepted verdicts that came out of the legal system that 'protected and validated the actions of law enforcement" that resulted in the lost of each of the aforementioned Black men.

    Until we're all able to take a step back and listen to the outcry from each side, we'll never heal from these tragic situations. That's what debate is all about, having the open and honest dialog no matter how painful it may be at first. But believe me, eventually all sides do begin to hear and better understand what the other side is saying as long as the dialog continues and meaningful solutions come of it that all sides can accept and live with.
    Also quite eloquently stated.

    Conflict can polarize and present factions, factions that serve to identify opposing forces and draw battle lines.

    It is indeed having faith that all sides will eventually begin to hear and better understand that gives us hope when otherwise it might appear hopeless at present.

    Each event-triggered situation not only requires individuals go through the process stages of grieving those lost, but whole communities doing so as well.

    The grieving process can cause memories to surface, memories about ancestors and their similar experiences .. memories that can be painful and sad and irritating.

    Sometimes I have a problem with hope when the conflict is still on the rise, fearing it will get worse, increasing the pain, before that which binds all sides can be seen, and the empathy and understanding begins that can form the foundation of the process of dialoging to find those meaningful solutions to which you allude.

    Fearing that a matter may get worse before it gets better can cause me to lose faith as I've yet to experience hope.

    Knowing that conflicts eventually do settle helps me in this regard to keep the faith, even when I realize how at odds those in the conflict are with each other and how challenging finding solutions will thus be.

    I just have to keep the faith, and then I can hope that the empathy and understanding will come, and I pray sooner than later.
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