View Poll Results: Who's right?

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270. You may not vote on this poll
  • Your black friend is right.

    137 50.74%
  • The cop is right.

    0 0%
  • Both are right.

    31 11.48%
  • Both are right... and wrong.

    56 20.74%
  • Both are wrong.

    18 6.67%
  • Other (please explain)

    28 10.37%
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Thread: Who's right?

  1. #21
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    Re: Who's right?

    Being white puts you in a position of power.
    Being a police officer puts you in a position of power.

    Being in a position of power makes empathy inherently more difficult.

    You do the math.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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  2. #22
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Does this mean that only veterans are allowed to have opinions on where how and when the U.S. goes to war?
    ... Do soldiers get to decide where, how and when the US goes to war?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #23
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    A black friend of mine says that non-black people cannot possibly understand what black people go through as they have not "walked in my shoes".

    This morning on the radio I heard a NY cop being interviewed say, "Until you have put on a uniform and a badge, and strapped on a gun, and walked a beat, you have no right to criticize me for how I do my job." (paraphrasing, but that's pretty close)

    Both, obviously, saying that unless you've 'been there, done that', you don't know what you're talking about and your opinion is irrelevant.

    Who's right?

    This question is specifically about race relations, not a general concept.
    In what world is "cop" a race?

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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Being white puts you in a position of power.

  5. #25
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    Re: Who's right?

    Police volunteer to take on significant responsibility by taking the job. They are choosing to subordinate themselves to the laws and regulations that govern their activity. Nobody chooses that simply by being born a certain race. The two are not analogous at all. And we most certainly can tell a cop how to do their job. We do it with the law. If a cop can't handle that, then they're in the wrong line of work.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  6. #26
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I'd say that both of them are right, wrt their own specific circumstances. Cops have a terrible job, and it's very stressful. It's hard not to let that type of work have a negative effect on you. It's like my profession, but much worse.

    As for the black issue, I don't doubt that's the case. It doesn't just apply to blacks though. It applies to every ethnic or racial group. Until you've been in someone else's shoes, you don't truly understand their world.
    Interesting view but one that raises more questions than it answers. What happens when a sizeable percentage within either group comes out and exposes certain unpalatable truths from within that group? For example, it's a well known fact that most of the American academic world is composed of whites. For years, thousands of white, black, asian, latin american scholars within various disciplines have agreed that there is indeed a power structure and whites do/have benefit to one extent or another. More importantly, these academics have also agreed that there does indeed exist a power structure where whites are at the top. Are the whites within those groups simply suffering from "white guilt"? Or are they right because they understand the white world?

    I don't think it is as easy as you put it. The people who least understand these issues are the ones who are embroiled in the midst of the conversations. The people who actually understand these issues are the ones who examine them 5-10-15 years down the line and have a pair of fresh eyes that aren't necessarily biased. The police who were beating blacks in the 1950s-1960s probably thought that they shouldn't judged by non-police officers. Likewise, Martin Luther King asked to be judged by the content of his character. In the 21st century, we realize that the local police was often used as a tool of oppression, and that MLK was a bit of a womanizer. Character can't be easily judged 20 minutes after (this is an exaggeration of course) an action occurred because there are many actions which are without context. So with that said, nobody can walk in the shoes of police officers or black people right now.

    It is only once the issues have long passed and they're deep in the ground that everything begins to make some sense. As of right now, I have no problem admitting that I am lost when it comes to deciding what to make of all this. I probably won't have a conclusive answer until I'm in my 40s (I'm still in my 20s).

    What I do know: I see a legitimate cause being taken up by young people who are sick of Stop & Frisk, they're sick of being pulled over for wearing low hanging jeans, they're sick of being put in prisons for weed when white kids who kill 5 people get away with affluenza, they're sick of the obvious imbalances of power. Likewise, I see some police officers who are scared for their lives, they're scared that what some ****ty cops do a few states over will get them killed, they're scared that they'll lose the trust they've built up in their communities.

    So with that being said, I think we won't be able to walk in either of their shoes for a while. We won't be able to walk in their shoes until the dust clears and we actually know all of the details and even then, we'll be hindered by the 20/20 vision that comes with looking into the past. It's definitely a philosophical conundrum.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #27
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Okay, but I don't get it. I was never a cop so I can't pretend I was. I was never black so I can't pretend I was.

    So technically they are both right in their answers, but what does it have to do with race relations? What if a cop is black....is he a cop first, or a black person first?
    It's called a "master status". Race comes before occupation so a black cop is black first, cop second.

  8. #28
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    They're both right. However, I've never walked in the shoes of a circus bearded woman either.
    That's not what I heard.

  9. #29
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Interesting view but one that raises more questions than it answers. What happens when a sizeable percentage within either group comes out and exposes certain unpalatable truths from within that group? For example, it's a well known fact that most of the American academic world is composed of whites. For years, thousands of white, black, asian, latin american scholars within various disciplines have agreed that there is indeed a power structure and whites do/have benefit to one extent or another. More importantly, these academics have also agreed that there does indeed exist a power structure where whites are at the top. Are the whites within those groups simply suffering from "white guilt"? Or are they right because they understand the white world?

    I don't think it is as easy as you put it. The people who least understand these issues are the ones who are embroiled in the midst of the conversations. The people who actually understand these issues are the ones who examine them 5-10-15 years down the line and have a pair of fresh eyes that aren't necessarily biased. The police who were beating blacks in the 1950s-1960s probably thought that they shouldn't judged by non-police officers. Likewise, Martin Luther King asked to be judged by the content of his character. In the 21st century, we realize that the local police was often used as a tool of oppression, and that MLK was a bit of a womanizer. Character can't be easily judged 20 minutes after (this is an exaggeration of course) an action occurred because there are many actions which are without context. So with that said, nobody can walk in the shoes of police officers or black people right now.

    It is only once the issues have long passed and they're deep in the ground that everything begins to make some sense.

    As of right now, I have no problem admitting that I am lost when it comes to deciding what to make of all this. I probably won't have a conclusive answer until I'm in my 40s (I'm still in my 20s).

    What I do know: I see a legitimate cause being taken up by young people who are sick of Stop & Frisk, they're sick of being pulled over for wearing low hanging jeans, they're sick of being put in prisons for weed when white kids who kill 5 people get away with affluenza, they're sick of the obvious imbalances of power. Likewise, I see some police officers who are scared for their lives, they're scared that what some ****ty cops do a few states over will get them killed, they're scared that they'll lose the trust they've built up in their communities.

    So with that being said, I think we won't be able to walk in either of their shoes for a while. We won't be able to walk in their shoes until the dust clears and we actually know all of the details and even then, we'll be hindered by the 20/20 vision that comes with looking into the past. It's definitely a philosophical conundrum.
    Subtle but you're saying the only legit concern cops have is that other cops may get them killed. Either way, only cops are ever the problem.

  10. #30
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    Re: Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Subtle but you're saying the only legit concern cops have is that other cops may get them killed. Either way, only cops are ever the problem.
    Nope, still reaching, I stated some of the concerns cops have. As for the second part of your statement, tsk, tsk tsk...
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-24-14 at 09:27 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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