• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Crosses the free speech line?

Did chanting for police "wanting dead cops now" cross free speech line?

  • Total voters
    23
J

joko104

Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
65,981
Reaction score
23,408
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
There are videos of protestors marching chanting over and over and over:

"What do we want? Dead cops.
When do we want them? Now!"

Two police officers shot. The message 3 hours before this by the murderer?

“They Take 1 Of Ours . . . Let’s Take 2 of Theirs,” the post continued, ending with, “This May Be My Final Post.”

Clearly links it to the protest issue.

Does that chant cross the allowed free speech? What about A group marching chatting they want dead black people? Dead gays? Dead Muslims?

I think it does. It is clearly attempting to incite violence. I would argue it is a terroristic threat. That they "want" it shows intent. That they "want" it "now," means its tangible and imminent.

If people can chant they want cops killed now, any group or anyone can want anyone individually or by category killed.

You're thoughts?
 
Last edited:
My thoughts, specific to this OP are, "why all this concern over law enforcement suddenly?"
 
Last edited:
X Factor said:
My thoughts are, "why are you feigning all this concern over law enforcement suddenly?"
Click to expand...

When have you would concern over any killing in message, once a person is born anyway? That seems an appropriate response to your toilet message at me.

I have predicted otherwise that if there is not some addressing of police abuse - which I do NOT see as a racial issue and posted that many times, there will inevitably be blowback violent.
 
joko104 said:
When have you would concern over any killing, once a person is born? That seems an appropriate response to your toilet message at me.

I have predicted otherwise that if there is not some addressing of police abuse - which I do NOT see as a racial issue and posted that many times, there will inevitably be blowback violent.
Click to expand...

Ah, there's the Joko I know. Cops just had it coming, eh?
 
Last edited:
joko104 said:
There are videos of protestors marching chanting over and over and over:

"What do we want? Dead cops.
When do we want them? Now!"

Two police officers shot. The message 3 hours before this by the murderer?

“They Take 1 Of Ours . . . Let’s Take 2 of Theirs,” the post continued, ending with, “This May Be My Final Post.”

Clearly links it to the protest issue.

Does that chant cross the allowed free speech? What about A group marching chatting they want dead black people? Dead gays? Dead Muslims?

I think it does. It is clearly attempting to incite violence. I would argue it is a terroristic threat. That they "want" it shows intent. That they "want" it "now," means its tangible and imminent.

If people can chant they want cops killed now, any group or anyone can want anyone individually or by category killed.

You're thoughts?
Click to expand...

I do not know if it is illegal in the US, but it should be IMHO.
 
X Factor said:
Ah, there's the Joko I know. Cops just had it coming, eh?
Click to expand...

No, I won't go along with this derailment attempt of yours. You want to make this about me personally, take it somewhere else.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Calm down, or there will be consequences.
 
joko104 said:
No, I won't go along with this derailment attempt of yours. You want to make this about me personally, take it somewhere else.
Click to expand...

I will say that I initially worded my first reply poorly. Using the word "feigning" was not the best because it indicates it's not genuine and that's not what I meant. I take your sentiments at face value but my question was more like why the sudden shift?

Just wanted to clarify that.
 
X Factor said:
I will say that I initially worded my first reply poorly. Using the word "feigning" was not the best because it indicates it's not genuine and that's not what I meant. I take your sentiments at face value but my question was more like why the sudden shift?

Just wanted to clarify that.
Click to expand...

No shift.

This is a legitimate free speech question. Long ago the Supreme Court ruled there are limits to free speech, specifically those that truly endanger people. (The shouting "fire" in a crowded theater). Terroristic threats are criminal. Many words people say are criminally illegal. Others are civilly unlawful such as slander, liable, copyright violations (civil and sometimes criminal) etc.

This thread raises the question of whether a group of people chanting for an other group to be immediately killed, the essence of the chant, is illegal, legal but immoral, or entirely protected free speech?

Do you have an opinion on this?
 
joko104 said:
No shift.

This is a legitimate free speech question. Long ago the Supreme Court ruled there are limits to free speech, specifically those that truly endanger people. (The shouting "fire" in a crowded theater). Terroristic threats are criminal. Many words people say are criminally illegal. Others are civilly unlawful such as slander, liable, copyright violations (civil and sometimes criminal) etc.

This thread raises the question of whether a group of people chanting for an other group to be immediately killed, the essence of the chant, is illegal, legal but immoral, or entirely protected free speech?

Do you have an opinion on this?
Click to expand...

What about Sarah Palin's "don't retreat, reload" statement, isn't that over the top?
 
AJiveMan said:
What about Sarah Palin's "don't retreat, reload" statement, isn't that over the top?
Click to expand...

Ethically, maybe, but I don't really remember the context so can't really say. Did she say she wanted any one or group specifically "dead" "now?" Again, I don't remember the context. I do remember she and the DNC both had maps with targets on them. But at election districts, not people.
 
joko104 said:
Ethically, maybe, but I don't really remember the context so can't really say. Did she say she wanted any one or group specifically "dead" "now?" Again, I don't remember the context. I do remember she and the DNC both had maps with targets on them. But at election districts, not people.
Click to expand...

I sounded like she wanted revenge to me. But, that was protected by free speech.

Also, let's go to Nevada for a minute, freedom of speech, freedom to assemble, and freedom to carry weapons, just in case government agents got out of control, a man saying he's put his child and wife in the line of fire if it came to that.

How far do we want to take these freedoms? To death?
 
AJiveMan said:
What about Sarah Palin's "don't retreat, reload" statement, isn't that over the top?
Click to expand...

Wasn't that used as a figure of speech in response to anti-gun laws reinforcing the second amendment? Kind of like a catchy "don't back down" on pro-gun laws.

I'm sure you know the difference, youre just being dishonest right?
 
celticwar17 said:
Wasn't that used as a figure of speech in response to anti-gun laws reinforcing the second amendment? Kind of like a catchy "don't back down" on pro-gun laws.

I'm sure you know the difference, youre just being dishonest right?
Click to expand...

Not being dishonest at all, you either have constitutional rights, or you don't.

When a crowd says "dead cops", do you really believe they mean that? I take it with a grain of salt, not much to take action on. Like saying to someone "I'm going to kill you" but I'm not, it's an expression, freedom of speech.

Might have been 50 people chanting dead cops, do you think they all meant it, literally?
 
AJiveMan said:
Not being dishonest at all, you either have constitutional rights, or you don't.

When a crowd says "dead cops", do you really believe they mean that? I take it with a grain of salt, not much to take action on. Like saying to someone "I'm going to kill you" but I'm not, it's an expression, freedom of speech.

Might have been 50 people chanting dead cops, do you think they all meant it, literally?
Click to expand...

At least in my state, telling someone you are going to kill them in an angry or threatening way is illegal. It is a terroristic threat.
 
X Factor said:
My thoughts, specific to this OP are, "why all this concern over law enforcement suddenly?"
Click to expand...

Right! I mean, it's not like minorities have ever had problems with law enforcement before. What on earth would make minorities have any sort of distrust of cops? The mind bottles.
 
X Factor said:
Ah, there's the Joko I know. Cops just had it coming, eh?
Click to expand...

I can't figure out what on earth he's talking about. His "blame Kennedy for the Cuban embargo" thread was unreal in how detached from reality it was.
 
AJiveMan said:
Not being dishonest at all, you either have constitutional rights, or you don't.

When a crowd says "dead cops", do you really believe they mean that? I take it with a grain of salt, not much to take action on. Like saying to someone "I'm going to kill you" but I'm not, it's an expression, freedom of speech.

Might have been 50 people chanting dead cops, do you think they all meant it, literally?
Click to expand...

The most dishonest thing about the "dead cops" chanters, who were few in number, is that their words have been applied to anyone who might have an issue with the treatment of unarmed black men by law enforcement.
 
celticwar17 said:
Wasn't that used as a figure of speech in response to anti-gun laws reinforcing the second amendment? Kind of like a catchy "don't back down" on pro-gun laws.

I'm sure you know the difference, youre just being dishonest right?
Click to expand...

So when Sarah Palin says something potentially inflammatory, it's a "figure of speech." But when a small group of pissed-off people says it, it's ... what, exactly?
 
Outside of direct threads (that are illegal), there is no such thing in my mind as crossing the free speech line.

Outside of threatening violence, people should be able to say anything they want to anyone they want.

No one is going to kill a cop strictly because they saw someone say they want to see a cop dead unless they are nuts.
 
Peter King said:
I do not know if it is illegal in the US, but it should be IMHO.
Click to expand...

It is not illegal in the although its close to our limits but it should not be illegal. I dint see how you can draw the line and say one type of controversial speech is illegal and one is okay, its either all okay or nothing is and that's why the US is pretty much the only country with true freedom of speech.
 
joko104 said:
At least in my state, telling someone you are going to kill them in an angry or threatening way is illegal. It is a terroristic threat.
Click to expand...

So the cops on the ground hearing this should have arrested the protesters and charged them with terrorism?

Cite the law in your state, to make me and others believe it.

Or, would you be referencing "hate speech"?
 
It would appear to be clearly inciting (openly inviting?) violence/mayhem. In the current political (racial?) environment that law is ignored just as it was with the NBP dead or alive bounties and the repeated "burn the bitch down" (request?) by the moron in Ferguson. It seems that mainly (only?) "protected classes" get the attention of the DOJ these days.
 
Kobie said:
Right! I mean, it's not like minorities have ever had problems with law enforcement before. What on earth would make minorities have any sort of distrust of cops? The mind bottles.
Click to expand...

Its not like we never saw minorities riot before. What on earth would make anyone fear that minorities may riot, loot or burn a business? The mind boggles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom