View Poll Results: Did chanting for police "wanting dead cops now" cross free speech line?

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  • Yes, and criminally so.

    42 15.33%
  • Yes, but not illegally.

    38 13.87%
  • No, that is protected free speech

    161 58.76%
  • IDK/Other

    33 12.04%
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Thread: Crosses the free speech line?

  1. #31
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    CHAPTER 870
    AFFRAYS; RIOTS; ROUTS; UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLIES
    870.01 Affrays and riots.
    870.02 Unlawful assemblies.
    870.03 Riots and routs.
    870.04 Specified officers to disperse riotous assembly.
    870.041 Preservation of the public peace by local authority.
    870.042 Designation of local authority.
    870.043 Declaration of emergency.
    870.044 Automatic emergency measures.
    870.045 Discretionary emergency measures.
    870.046 Filing and publication.
    870.047 Duration and termination of emergency.
    870.048 Violations.
    870.05 When killing excused.
    870.06 Unauthorized military organizations.
    870.01 Affrays and riots.—
    (1) All persons guilty of an affray shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    (2) All persons guilty of a riot, or of inciting or encouraging a riot, shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    History.—s. 35, Feb. 10, 1832; RS 2406; GS 3239; RGS 5072; CGL 7174; s. 1, ch. 67-407; s. 1125, ch. 71-136.
    870.02 Unlawful assemblies.—If three or more persons meet together to commit a breach of the peace, or to do any other unlawful act, each of them shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    History.—RS 2407; GS 3240; RGS 5073; CGL 7175; s. 1126, ch. 71-136.
    870.03 Riots and routs.—If any persons unlawfully assembled demolish, pull down or destroy, or begin to demolish, pull down or destroy, any dwelling house or other building, or any ship or vessel, each of them shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    History.—s. 7, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2408; GS 3241; RGS 5074; CGL 7176; s. 1127, ch. 71-136.
    870.04 Specified officers to disperse riotous assembly.—If any number of persons, whether armed or not, are unlawfully, riotously or tumultuously assembled in any county, city or municipality, the sheriff or the sheriff’s deputies, or the mayor, or any commissioner, council member, alderman or police officer of the said city or municipality, or any officer or member of the Florida Highway Patrol, or any officer or agent of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Department of Environmental Protection, or beverage enforcement agent, any personnel or representatives of the Department of Law Enforcement or its successor, or any other peace officer, shall go among the persons so assembled, or as near to them as may be with safety, and shall in the name of the state command all the persons so assembled immediately and peaceably to disperse; and if such persons do not thereupon immediately and peaceably disperse, said officers shall command the assistance of all such persons in seizing, arresting and securing such persons in custody; and if any person present being so commanded to aid and assist in seizing and securing such rioter or persons so unlawfully assembled, or in suppressing such riot or unlawful assembly, refuses or neglects to obey such command, or, when required by such officers to depart from the place, refuses and neglects to do so, the person shall be deemed one of the rioters or persons unlawfully assembled, and may be prosecuted and punished accordingly.
    Nice, except it doesn't address inciting a riot by speaking. Does it. Nice try. Freedom of speech protected.

  2. #32
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Not being dishonest at all, you either have constitutional rights, or you don't.

    When a crowd says "dead cops", do you really believe they mean that? I take it with a grain of salt, not much to take action on. Like saying to someone "I'm going to kill you" but I'm not, it's an expression, freedom of speech.

    Might have been 50 people chanting dead cops, do you think they all meant it, literally?
    in our society to issue a credible threat is to make oneself liable. This crowd was attempting to protect a man who was actually attempting to seriously harm or kill police officers, and they were willing to use violence to do it. I'd say that their threats are credible.

    If you issue a death threat against someone, well, you are liable for your statement. Don't believe me? Walk up to the Secret Service and threaten the life of the President. You don't get to spout off your mouth without ever seeing consequences for your actions.

  3. #33
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    There are videos of protestors marching chanting over and over and over:

    "What do we want? Dead cops.
    When do we want them? Now!"

    Two police officers shot. The message 3 hours before this by the murderer?

    “They Take 1 Of Ours . . . Let’s Take 2 of Theirs,” the post continued, ending with, “This May Be My Final Post.”

    Clearly links it to the protest issue.

    Does that chant cross the allowed free speech? What about A group marching chatting they want dead black people? Dead gays? Dead Muslims?

    I think it does. It is clearly attempting to incite violence. I would argue it is a terroristic threat. That they "want" it shows intent. That they "want" it "now," means its tangible and imminent.

    If people can chant they want cops killed now, any group or anyone can want anyone individually or by category killed.

    You're thoughts?
    This guy knew what he as going to do right after he shot his girlfriend; maybe even before. So for this to be blamed on demonstrators and or their motives is akin to some guy recently who killed two people (I think) at a government facility and the investigation showed him to be a radical right-winger: so Sean Hannity did it... What troubles me, is that I have yet to see thousands marching in the streets over this clear murder.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  4. #34
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    At least in my state, telling someone you are going to kill them in an angry or threatening way is illegal. It is a terroristic threat.
    No; not terroristic, not by today's standards. It is a threat of physical harm and death. THAT is illegal just about anywhere and gets an instant restraining order.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  5. #35
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    in our society to issue a credible threat is to make oneself liable. This crowd was attempting to protect a man who was actually attempting to seriously harm or kill police officers, and they were willing to use violence to do it. I'd say that their threats are credible.

    If you issue a death threat against someone, well, you are liable for your statement. Don't believe me? Walk up to the Secret Service and threaten the life of the President. You don't get to spout off your mouth without ever seeing consequences for your actions.
    A death threat against a specific identifiable individual is not the same as a generalized statement like "Death to cops."
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  6. #36
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    in our society to issue a credible threat is to make oneself liable. This crowd was attempting to protect a man who was actually attempting to seriously harm or kill police officers, and they were willing to use violence to do it. I'd say that their threats are credible.

    If you issue a death threat against someone, well, you are liable for your statement. Don't believe me? Walk up to the Secret Service and threaten the life of the President. You don't get to spout off your mouth without ever seeing consequences for your actions.
    Supposed threats, to an individual is a he said, she said thing. Now, if you threaten any public official or politician, that's another story.

  7. #37
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Supposed threats, to an individual is a he said, she said thing. Now, if you threaten any public official or politician, that's another story.
    Aren't we fortunate, then, that we life in an information age where most everything is recorded, somewhere, and available for review?

  8. #38
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    A death threat against a specific identifiable individual is not the same as a generalized statement like "Death to cops."
    You are right. Death to Cops is incitement, no different than Death to Blacks or Death to Jews or Death to Whites, all deserving of incarceration.

  9. #39
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    This guy knew what he as going to do right after he shot his girlfriend; maybe even before. So for this to be blamed on demonstrators and or their motives is akin to some guy recently who killed two people (I think) at a government facility and the investigation showed him to be a radical right-winger: so Sean Hannity did it... What troubles me, is that I have yet to see thousands marching in the streets over this clear murder.
    I didn't blame the chanters for the death of the officers. Rather, my claim is that what they were doing is illegal.

  10. #40
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    Re: Crosses the free speech line?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Aren't we fortunate, then, that we life in an information age where most everything is recorded, somewhere, and available for review?
    Without that, life today would be impossible.

    Reminds me of the film, Tom Horn, where he supposedly confessed to killing a kid with a rifle.

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