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Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contr to the deaths of 2 Police officers? [W:68, W:433]

Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

  • Total voters
    67
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Zyphlin said:
Who is saying he hasn't been inflaming the situation or helping to whip up the anger that's out there?

People disagreeing with the OP and the question asked in the poll is not the same as disagreeing that Sharpton hasn't been working people up.

This thread's original post and poll weren't asking if he "fanned the flames" of anger over the issue...it asked if he contributed to the death of these cops. Those are ENTIRELY seperate things.

It also suggested that he did the very thing you say he didn't do...that he wanted innocent cops to be killed. That he specifically led calls for innocent cops to be killed.

I'm sorry you want to be pissy that people aren't just ignoring the lunacy of this topic or the fraudulent claims made throughout it and instead focusing on an entirely seperate thing that isn't what was asked in this thread...but that's what happens when you start a thread asking if he contributed to a murder by doing something he factually did not do.
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So then complain to the people who are making claims against Sharpton that you don't like. I'm not being pissy about anything. I believe Sharpton contributed to what happened, and fanning flames is a very dangerous situation, and the fact is, this has been brewing for years. I'm surprised it took this long.

Yes, his rhetoric contributed to the deaths of these 2 policemen. You disagree - and that's your right. Just like it's my right to say he contributed to the problem and this is now the end result.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

CanadaJohn said:
You can toss all the non-relevant chum into the waters you want - doesn't change the facts. But keep excusing the anti-cop hate speech and the race baiting pimps and you'll continue to have these kinds of incidents.
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And you will continue to have these kinds of incidents when you pretend that the cops can do no wrong and can trample all over everybody else's right.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

CMPancake said:
I don't have access to those books. Do you have any link online that has evidence to Obama meeting with Military advisers less than 61 times over 5 years?
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Whats being said is that Obama ignores his military advisers, they are out of the loop just like the Secretary of Defense is nothing more than a figure head under the Obama administration. The real Secretary of defense, those who are making the national security decisions and who are behind the social engineering of the military are Valerie Jarrett and Susan Rice.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers? [W

US Conservative said:
Al Sharpton's race hustling and poverty pimping are long known and he's a frequent guest to the Obama whitehouse, but in recent days Sharpton led a rally in NYC where "What Do We Want?… Dead Cops!” was shouted. As we know, two of NYPD's finest were executed by a man who may be an islamist. The two cops weren't even white-just cops.
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Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?
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Doesn't really matter if it did. Al Sharpton is a permutation of of the anxieties and fears of black people and civil rights minded folk. As long as those anxieties and fears continue to exist, "Al Sharptons" will always exist as well.

That will happen as long as blacks as poor and socially irrelevant to the mainstream.

It's like Rush Limbaugh. He is an invention of the free market and exists because there is a significant economic demand for commentary of the type he supplies.

Bad men exist in the world as long as bad desires exist en masse, sort of traditional concepts of bad spirits or demons.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

tres borrachos said:
So then complain to the people who are making claims against Sharpton that you don't like.
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I've been vocalizing my disagreement with them, and I'm vocalizing my disagreement with you. Specifically you getting upset that people are actually dealing with the ridiculousness brought up in this thread instead of just going "Al Sharpton bad! Who cares about lies, Al Sharpton bad!" I'm sorry dealing with facts and reality make people "apologists" to you, but that says more about you than them.

You want to cast blame for MURDER on people due to SPEECH that in no way, shape, or form advocated for klling and which there is zero proof the killer was motivated by it. I'll be sure to keep that in mind for the future for what I'm sure will be a consistent stance on your part.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Zyphlin said:
Oh really? Nice try.

You're seriously suggesting that in answer to the question of "Why did he drive to New York to kill cops instead of Baltimore" that "Because NYC cops are who killed Garner" isn't a legitimate possability?

Give me a ****ing break.



Entirely irrelevant to whether or not his motivation to go to New York to kill cops instead of Baltimore could've been based on a desire to take revenge on NYC cops as oppposed to because protesters in new york said "kill cops".

You put forth a ridiculous hypothetical, make a stupid assertion about it, and then are trying to back track and change the goal posts when a legitimate answer to you dumb hypothetical was given.

The question was "Would he have done this if there wasn't so much attention on the issue". The question was why did he got to New York when he could've just killed cops in Baltimore.
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Because the rhetoric out there says that white cops in NYC kill black men who are doing nothing wrong. And the rhetoric encourages people to stand up against this injustice. The rhetoric said that people need to be reminded that "black lives matter" and "I can't breathe" and "hands up, don't shoot" and even the mayor's son is a potential target. Because Al Sharpton's National Action Network claims "No justice. No peace". Because Al Sharpton has been allowed to get away with his garbage for years and people don't have the balls to call it out for what it is, and so he convinces young black men that their lives in this country suck, and the cops in the NYPD got away with a crime.

Well, this is how he stood up.

That's why he didn't kill cops in Baltimore.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Zyphlin said:
Oh really? Nice try.

You're seriously suggesting that in answer to the question of "Why did he drive to New York to kill cops instead of Baltimore" that "Because NYC cops are who killed Garner" isn't a legitimate possability?

Give me a ****ing break.



Entirely irrelevant to whether or not his motivation to go to New York to kill cops instead of Baltimore could've been based on a desire to take revenge on NYC cops as oppposed to because protesters in new york said "kill cops".

You put forth a ridiculous hypothetical, make a stupid assertion about it, and then are trying to back track and change the goal posts when a legitimate answer to you dumb hypothetical was given.

The question was "Would he have done this if there wasn't so much attention on the issue". The question was why did he got to New York when he could've just killed cops in Baltimore.
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Take a second to actually think about what your saying.

Why would this guy want to avenge Garner's death? Did he know Garner? And why now, why not when it happened?

The only logical answer is that he heard about the death from those who were spouting that the cop murdered Garner and the GJ let him walk free.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Zyphlin said:
I've been vocalizing my disagreement with them, and I'm vocalizing my disagreement with you. Specifically you getting upset that people are actually dealing with the ridiculousness brought up in this thread instead of just going "Al Sharpton bad! Who cares about lies, Al Sharpton bad!" I'm sorry dealing with facts and reality make people "apologists" to you, but that says more about you than them.

You want to cast blame for MURDER on people due to SPEECH that in no way, shape, or form advocated for klling and which there is zero proof the killer was motivated by it. I'll be sure to keep that in mind for the future for what I'm sure will be a consistent stance on your part.
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Yes, the people who are rushing to Sharpton's defense are apologists.

I say Sharpton's rhetoric contributed to this. You disagree. Not sure why the threat of watching all of my future posts to try to trap me or something. My posts on Al Sharpton have never wavered. They also won't in the future.

And once again, I never said Sharpton was to "blame for murder". Not sure what it is that you don't understand about that Zyphlin. Nor did I say "Al Sharpton bad!", did I?

Please try to calm down when replying to me. You're making up posts I never made. Are you angry because I used the word "apologist" - which by the way had nothing to do with you and wasn't directed at you, but which you seem to take personally.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Declan said:
And you will continue to have these kinds of incidents when you pretend that the cops can do no wrong and can trample all over everybody else's right.
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In this case, the cops did nothing wrong - neither the cop who was the subject of the GJ process and exonerated, nor the two cops who were actually out protecting citizens in a black community of NYC and were murdered for breathing while wearing a NYPD uniform.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Declan said:
And you will continue to have these kinds of incidents when you pretend that the cops can do no wrong and can trample all over everybody else's right.
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So people are going to continue to ambush innocent policemen? And what are you basing this on exactly?
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

tres borrachos said:
So people are going to continue to ambush innocent policemen? And what are you basing this on exactly?
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Well, something similar happened with school and theater shootings. Plenty of crazy people in American society who are able to tap into the darker impulses of our culture to acquire the moral certification to commit their crimes.

I expect that sooner or later police will be forced to capitulate though. Their effective superior is the mayor, and while in the general the mayor of any given city prefers a functional working relationship with the police to hostility and aggression, that preference vanishes pretty rapidly with the polls.

Same is true of attorney generals.
 
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Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Morality Games said:
Well, something similar happened with school and theater shootings. Plenty of crazy people in American society who are able to tap into the darker impulses of our culture to acquire the moral certification to commit their crimes.
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Copycats you mean? Or people who are just looking to cause trouble and use any excuse to wreak havoc?
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Morality Games said:
Well, something similar happened with school and theater shootings. Plenty of crazy people in American society who are able to tap into the darker impulses of our culture to acquire the moral certification to commit their crimes.
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And this is exactly why unchecked inflammatory rhetoric is so dangerous and people who trade in venomous speech should take responsibility for their part in this situation.

To me, that's the entire relevance of this thread and the entire nature of my posts in it.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

CanadaJohn said:
And this is exactly why unchecked inflammatory rhetoric is so dangerous and people who trade in venomous speech should take responsibility for their part in this situation.

To me, that's the entire relevance of this thread and the entire nature of my posts in it.
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That's not ultimately possible.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

CanadaJohn said:
And this is exactly why unchecked inflammatory rhetoric is so dangerous and people who trade in venomous speech should take responsibility for their part in this situation.

To me, that's the entire relevance of this thread and the entire nature of my posts in it.
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Same here.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Until you have conclusive evidence that the shooter was in fact influenced by any such rhetoric from Mr. Sharpton (who publicly condemned the shootings), this is an absurdity.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Morality Games said:
That's not ultimately possible.
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I agree that some people are loathe to be reasonable and responsible. That doesn't mean the rest of us should just schluff it off as free speech and throw up our hands and walk away. Moral authority is often far more effective than legal authority.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Morality Games said:
Well, something similar happened with school and theater shootings. Plenty of crazy people in American society who are able to tap into the darker impulses of our culture to acquire the moral certification to commit their crimes.

I expect that sooner or later police will be forced to capitulate though. Their effective superior is the mayor, and while in the general the mayor of any given city prefers a functional working relationship with the police to hostility and aggression, that preference vanishes pretty rapidly with the polls.

Same is true of attorney generals.
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The police will have to capitulate eventually. Personally I'd like to see them all walk off the job in protest, but that won't happen. But it's what some people deserve. For every post I see saying something positive about cops, I see 10 saying ugly things about them. I'd like to see NYC survive for a day without the police, and then maybe people would not be so ugly.

The attorney general has proven himself to be useless. He has done nothing to stop this either, or even lessen the impact of what happened, either in Ferguson or the Garner situation.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

tres borrachos said:
Copycats you mean? Or people who are just looking to cause trouble and use any excuse to wreak havoc?
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Tone from the top. Human reason and instinct compute acceptable etiquette by observing the people around us in a cycle of progressive escalation. Once you see someone shoot up a school in the media, shooting up a school becomes a fixture of your reality; to a person whose inner darkest nature is always on the border of their consciousness, that's license to engage in the same behavior as a way of resolving their deepest frustrations and emotional conflicts.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Morality Games said:
Tone from the top. Human reason and instinct compute acceptable etiquette by observing the people around us in a cycle of progressive escalation. Once you see someone shoot up a school in the media, shooting up a school becomes a fixture of your reality; to a person whose inner darkest nature is always on the border of their consciousness, that's license to engage in the same behavior as a way of resolving their deepest frustrations and emotional conflicts.
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It doesn't take much to set off a firecracker. But school shootings by nutcases can't be stopped, unless the police know in advance about it.

Comments like "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!" can be and should be stopped at the time they happen. And immediately afterward, people who are in a position to establish calm, law and order need to come out and do it, or at least try to. Once the video clips of those people was made public, the ones who were telling people how they are being mistreated by the police and those using their microphones to tell their personal anecdotes about the racist treatment they have received or about having warn their bi-racial sons about being the targets of police needed to stop and realize this was getting terribly out of hand.

Words do matter. Rhetoric matters. It's dangerous not to acknowledge that.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

tres borrachos said:
It doesn't take much to set off a firecracker. But school shootings by nutcases can't be stopped, unless the police know in advance about it.

Comments like "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!" can be and should be stopped at the time they happen. And immediately afterward, people who are in a position to establish calm, law and order need to come out and do it, or at least try to. Once the video clips of those people was made public, the ones who were telling people how they are being mistreated by the police and those using their microphones to tell their personal anecdotes about the racist treatment they have received or about having warn their bi-racial sons about being the targets of police needed to stop and realize this was getting terribly out of hand.

Words do matter. Rhetoric matters. It's dangerous not to acknowledge that.
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Ideally, yes, but in a world where cops are tweeting about killing protesters in a manner that it visible to the entire public (and getting a slap on the wrist over it), the first response of protestors is going to be chanting about killing cops.

When large numbers of angry people gather for a political cause pitted against another group of equally angry entrenched public servants, the odds of inappropriate comments or behavior rises arithmetically.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Morality Games said:
Ideally, yes, but in a world where cops are tweeting about killing protesters in a manner that it visible to the entire public (and getting a slap on the wrist over it), the first response of protestors is going to be chanting about killing cops.
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I know of one cop from California doing that earlier this month. Where else was it happening? And are you suggesting that the people in NY calling for the deaths of cops in a march were doing it because of him?

But what does it have to do with nobody taking ownership of their words and trying to restore calm in a time of great chaos?
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Fiddytree said:
Until you have conclusive evidence that the shooter was in fact influenced by any such rhetoric from Mr. Sharpton (who publicly condemned the shootings), this is an absurdity.
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Quoted for truth.
 
Re: Did Al Sharpton's rhetoric contribute to the deaths of 2 NYPD Police officers?

Paschendale said:
That's what I'm doing right now. But you already made up your mind, so the facts don't make a difference.
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A little late for sharpton, I never considered whether or not you spoke out against it to be honest.

I never thought you supported more dead cops, etc.
 
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