View Poll Results: was it correct to say the mayor had blood on his hands

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Thread: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However, you need to have a relatively clear deliniation between the person who is supposedly "inciting" or "encouraging" said violence and those actually committing it.

    There is a difference between an individual speaking directly to a knowingly enflamed group and advocating a specific type of criminal activity, that a person in said group ends up going out and doing....and simply advocating in a broad venue that something was wrong, with no direct adovcation for any specific or even broad type of illegal activitiy.

    Indeed, one of the explicite requirements of incitement I believe is that it must be specifically be encouraging, instigating, encouraging, etc, in order to cause someone to commit a criminal act.

    If I go out and say "YEAH! THE COWBOYS SUCK ASS!" to a crowd of people...and then someone stabs a Cowboys player...I'm not likely to be found guilty of "inciting". Even if my words did somehow motivate that person to do that...which in this case we have zero evidence that anything the mayor said motivated the murderer...it still doesn't necessarily mean my comments were made for the purpose of convincing him to commit such a criminal act.

    The incident you're quoting is an instance of a specific person urging people to commit a specific crime. That's an entirely different situation to what we have here with regards to the mayor
    I can agree with that - it's just a very thin line between the rhetoric of anti-cop speech we've experienced in America this past couple of months and a direct call to violence. You can see it in those who come out to protest and get caught up in the emotion of the day and spew even more violent hate such as the "what do we want, dead cops..." chants. You can also see it in the assassin who came from Baltimore to kill NYC cops - there is no plausible explanation why he chose not to kill Baltimore cops but drove to NYC to target that city's cops other than the anti-cop hate speech that has been spewing from various mouths following the GJ non-indictment in the Garner case.

    There has to be some level of responsibility accepted by those who know full well there are people with fragile and dangerous mental capacity deficiencies who will readily take such language as their call to arms and who will see murdering a police officer as a righteous thing to do.

    It's why I think De Blasio's use of his son as a political tool in this situation was dangerous.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #52
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by plutonium View Post
    i notice a pattern here ...this also happened in los angeles when ever someone (the mayor of nyc or the police chief of los angeles stands up for the citizens of the city and may say one little thing negative about the police or their procedures they are not fit for office....the police are not better than the citizens why do people make them better. ..why can a police make a mistake and get away with it and a citizen cannot... what some of you people want citizens to do is let the police do what ever they want to do to citizens at their will with no questions asked....you will be sorry when one of your relatives get hurt or killed by them it just has not happened yet......now what i see right now and this is what the police are doing they are against the citizens if one of their cops make a mistake no questions asked ... a citizen will turn another citizen in if they make a mistake or break the law
    The vast majority of black people in NYC, in Ferguson, Missouri, and any number of other cities in America are very supportive of police and the work they do in their communities, particularly as it relates to fighting black crime and black on black crime. They don't care if the officers are white, black, pink or polka dot, they just want to feel safe in their homes and on their streets as they try to survive and live out each day.

    Clearly, from your comments, you don't believe in the American justice system. You complain the police or presumably the police officer in the Garner case "made a mistake" and they are above the law and no questions ask. Well that's just so much bull **** and you know it. The officer in this case was subjected to the grand jury process and a "jury of his peers" deemed there was insufficient evidence to charge him with a crime. But that's not good enough for you - you want him charged and likely convicted because your views are more important than the views of the grand jury panel charged with making the determination. Too bad for you - that's the way the system works and if you want to be civilized in a society of mixed views, you have to accept those decisions you disagree with as well as those you do agree with, without spewing hate about the system when it doesn't go your way.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #53
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    it's just a very thin line between the rhetoric of anti-cop speech we've experienced in America this past couple of months and a direct call to violence.
    No, there's a very direct line. Just as there was a very direct line between actually calling for violence, and using firearm language in an analogic manner, as was the case with Gabby Giffords. There's a VERY significant line between criminal speech worthy of legal condemnation, and simply unwise inflammatory language.

    Did the mayor or others perhaps make inflammatory statements? Sure. And if you want to go at them for inflaming the situation then I can understand that. But that is a lot different than actually being responsible for, or having a hand in, the actual criminal act that ends up happening.

    "What do we want, dead cops" is absolutely problematic and I'd have no issue with police taking action against someone leading such a chant, as that is open advocation and incitement towards a criminal act.

    Suggesting police officers got it wrong, that there's mistreatment of african americans, or even stupid comments like the cops just beating and killing people at will is an entirely different realm of culpability. They may enflame a situation, but they're definitely not responsible for someone else deciding to actually act criminally.

    there is no plausible explanation why he chose not to kill Baltimore cops but drove to NYC to target that city's cops other than the anti-cop hate speech that has been spewing from various mouths following the GJ non-indictment in the Garner case.
    That's crap that there's no other plausible explanation. That's laughable.

    Here's a COMPLETELY palusible explanation for why he went to NYC instead of Baltimore.

    Garner was killed by NYC cops, so the man wanted to kill NYC cops in retribution.

    Explain to me how that's less plausible than "he wanted to kill NYC's because of anti-cop rhetoric".

  4. #54
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    ****, that remark is so ****ing out of touch, it's not even funny.

    Thousands March Across Nation to Protest Police Killings of Black Men - NBC News
    Why would you say that?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #55
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I didn't see de Blasio's campaign in that manner and I believe that people who saw his anti-abuse-of-power message in that manner either have a dangerous idea of police power or a distorted view of reality. I'm curious though, if someone assassinates President Obama, would the people who endorse anti-Obama messages be responsible for that?
    Only if the anti-Obama messages rose to the level of the calls for "dead cops" in NYC in recent weeks. De Blasio ran for office on an anti-police platform and that set the context for everything he has said recently.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Only if the anti-Obama messages rose to the level of the calls for "dead cops" in NYC in recent weeks.
    Is there any way de Blasio could have criticized police in a way that would NOT have made him responsible for this murder, in your eyes. Or is all criticism of police from this point forward now responsible for murder any hypothetical future murders?

    De Blasio ran for office on an anti-police platform and that set the context for everything he has said recently.
    What quote from de Blasio makes you think he is anti-police instead of just anti-police-abuse?

  7. #57
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, there's a very direct line. Just as there was a very direct line between actually calling for violence, and using firearm language in an analogic manner, as was the case with Gabby Giffords. There's a VERY significant line between criminal speech worthy of legal condemnation, and simply unwise inflammatory language.

    Did the mayor or others perhaps make inflammatory statements? Sure. And if you want to go at them for inflaming the situation then I can understand that. But that is a lot different than actually being responsible for, or having a hand in, the actual criminal act that ends up happening.

    "What do we want, dead cops" is absolutely problematic and I'd have no issue with police taking action against someone leading such a chant, as that is open advocation and incitement towards a criminal act.

    Suggesting police officers got it wrong, that there's mistreatment of african americans, or even stupid comments like the cops just beating and killing people at will is an entirely different realm of culpability. They may enflame a situation, but they're definitely not responsible for someone else deciding to actually act criminally.



    That's crap that there's no other plausible explanation. That's laughable.

    Here's a COMPLETELY palusible explanation for why he went to NYC instead of Baltimore.

    Garner was killed by NYC cops, so the man wanted to kill NYC cops in retribution.

    Explain to me how that's less plausible than "he wanted to kill NYC's because of anti-cop rhetoric".
    I'll grant you there's no direct link, but words have meaning and substance, particularly when they're voiced by leaders in any community.

    And it's really funny that you think this guy in Baltimore all of a sudden, out of the blue, decided that Garner was murdered by cops and needed to be avenged. How did it get into his conscience thoughts? No black guys killed in Baltimore by police?

    Unless people want to be serious about the issues this will just go on and there will be other such tragedies.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #58
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'll grant you there's no direct link, but words have meaning and substance, particularly when they're voiced by leaders in any community.

    And it's really funny that you think this guy in Baltimore all of a sudden, out of the blue, decided that Garner was murdered by cops and needed to be avenged. How did it get into his conscience thoughts? No black guys killed in Baltimore by police?

    Unless people want to be serious about the issues this will just go on and there will be other such tragedies.
    The killer had a history of mental instability.
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Is there any way de Blasio could have criticized police in a way that would NOT have made him responsible for this murder, in your eyes. Or is all criticism of police from this point forward now responsible for murder any hypothetical future murders?


    What quote from de Blasio makes you think he is anti-police instead of just anti-police-abuse?
    For Mayor de Blasio and New York Police, a Rift Is Ripped ...

    www.nytimes.com/.../a-widening-rift-between-de-blas...The New York Times


    13 hours ago - Since Mr. de Blasio's crusade on the campaign trail against what he ... After reports of an attack on two police lieutenants during protests on the ...

    ". . . Since Mr. de Blasio’s crusade on the campaign trail against what he viewed as overreaching by the police in the Bloomberg administration, those close to the mayor have professed that securing the trust of officers was an essential, complicated task.

    And for much of the department, it seems, he has fallen far short.
    “This is a nightmare of the highest magnitude for everyone,” said Michael Palladino, president of the Detectives’ Endowment Association. Leaders at City Hall, he added, “need to dig down deep in their souls and understand that campaigning to be a leader is easier than being a leader.”. . .
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #60
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    Re: Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    The killer had a history of mental instability.
    The killer had a history of breaking the law. What mental instability was he diagnosed with by a doctor?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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