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Is it fair to say the mayor where the 2 cops were killed was partly responsible?

was it correct to say the mayor had blood on his hands

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Jack Hays said:
I'm not going to try to draft remarks for de Blasio. Given his history, his margin for error in criticizing the police would be small indeed.
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I'm not asking you to draft remarks. I'm asking you de Blasio could have criticized the police in a way that would not made an attack more likely. It's a yes or no answer. So, yes or no?

The decision against stop-and-frisk was stayed by a higher court and the judge who made that decision was removed from the case.
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That partially correct. U.S. District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin ruled that stop-and-frisk was unconstitutional because it was discriminatory. The U.S. Federal Appeals Court removed Scheindlin from from the case (a decision that was criticized by many legal professionals), but upheld her ruling that it was unconstitutional. While the Appeals could did put a stay on her ruling that the City needed to restructure of the program, it refused to completely toss out the original ruling and eventually threw out the appeal that challenged it.

In addition, your avoidance of the two reports which demonstrate discrimination is noted.
 
sawdust said:
Prior to the mayoralty of Rudy Giuliani, New York had a major crime problem. Giuliani instituted a police policy were the police had a zero tolerance policy for even the smallest infractions. Soon, crime abated and New York became a comparatively safe city. Di Blazio is no Giuliani. His commissioner is tolerant of minor infractions and Di Blazio is conciliatory towards the protestors that disrupted the city. He earned the disrespect of the cities police force and his tolerance of the protest some believe encouraged future violence against police in New York. I don't know if Di Blazio has blood on his hands but I believe he's a bad person.
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Mayor Rudy and his zero tolerance no broken windows policy had nothing to do with the decline in NYC's crime rate. It reduced no more and no less than every other city across the world, in keeping with the research into the banning of leaded gasoline.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Mayor Rudy and his zero tolerance no broken windows policy had nothing to do with the decline in NYC's crime rate. It reduced no more and no less than every other city across the world, in keeping with the research into the banning of leaded gasoline.
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I'd say "broken windows" policing is FAR more responsible for the ever-growing divide between poor minority communities and urban police departments than any "rhetoric" from Sharpton, de Blasio or Obama.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I'm not asking you to draft remarks. I'm asking you de Blasio could have criticized the police in a way that would not made an attack more likely. It's a yes or no answer. So, yes or no?


That partially correct. U.S. District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin ruled that stop-and-frisk was unconstitutional because it was discriminatory. The U.S. Federal Appeals Court removed Scheindlin from from the case (a decision that was criticized by many legal professionals), but upheld her ruling that it was unconstitutional. While the Appeals could did put a stay on her ruling that the City needed to restructure of the program, it refused to completely toss out the original ruling and eventually threw out the appeal that challenged it.

In addition, your avoidance of the two reports which demonstrate discrimination is noted.
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Sorry, it never occurred to me that you would expect me to take the ACLU and CCR seriously in this matter. They find discrimination in the sunrise because light displaces dark. I already answered your question whether de Blasio could have said anything that would not have made an attack more likely. You quoted it. The matter is not reducible to yes or no.
 
Fearandloathing said:
The head of the police union is disgustingly exploiting a tragedy. "Blood on his hands" is pure hate-filled rhetoric designed only to fuel the debate and play martyr.
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Protesters walked the Streets of NY chanting they " wanted Dead Cops now ".

THAT'S hate speech and its part of a growing narrative that led to two innocent Police Officers losing their lives.

DeBlasio put his lot in with these " protesters " and exploited this massive and out of control false narrative for Political gain.

It backfired on him.
 
Kobie said:
I'd say "broken windows" policing is FAR more responsible for the ever-growing divide between poor minority communities and urban police departments than any "rhetoric" from Sharpton, de Blasio or Obama.
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Does " broken window " Policing create the disproportionate amount of crime and violence that exist in poor minority communities ?
 
Fenton said:
Does " broken window " Policing create the disproportionate amount of crime and violence that exist in poor minority communities ?
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Read what I posted.
 
Kobie said:
Read what I posted.
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I did.

You're just perpetuating the same false narrative that led to the shooting deaths of these Officers.

No, never address the issues that perpetuate crime and poverty, just blame the Police for doing their job.

Never question the responsibility of those who occupy these high crime areas.

Its all the Police Officers fault for being there and daring to uphold the law.
 
Fenton said:
I did.

You're just perpetuating the same false narrative that led to the shooting deaths of these Officers.

No, never address the issues that perpetuate crime and poverty, just blame the Police for doing their job.

Never question the responsibility of those who occupy these high crime areas.

Its all the Police Officers fault for being there and daring to uphold the law.
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I wasn't blaming the police for doing their job. All I said was Broken Windows policing is a breeding ground for mistrust. Everything else in your post is a figment of your imagination that I never said.
 
Nobody gets the blame but that asshole that did the shooting. Don't blame the mayor. Ferguson or Sharpton. Don't blame the gun manufacturer's or the NRA.

Jeezus....... :roll:
 
CanadaJohn said:
And it's really funny that you think this guy in Baltimore all of a sudden, out of the blue, decided that Garner was murdered by cops and needed to be avenged.
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I think it's really funny that you keep strawmanning and changing the goal posts.

Your initial post suggested "there was no plausible explanation why he chose not to kill baltimore cops" but instead went to NYC to kill cops. I was simply putting forward another "plausible explanation", not stating definitively what I personally believed.

Your hypothetical question that I responded to was not asking why he killed cops in general, it asked why he chose to kill in New York instead of Baltimore.

It's entirely plausible that he chose to kill in New York instead of Baltimore because Garner was killed in New York.

Trying to talk about how he got the idea to kill cops, IN GENERAL, is moving the goal posts from the original comment I was responding to.
 
Fearandloathing said:
The head of the police union is disgustingly exploiting a tragedy. "Blood on his hands" is pure hate-filled rhetoric designed only to fuel the debate and play martyr.
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The only martyrs in this story are the 2 dead policemen.

The head of the police union has every right to be angry, and like the garbage who chanted that they wanted dead cops, also has the right to say what's on his mind. And he is speaking for thousands of cops in NYC and other places who feel exactly as he does.
 
Zyphlin said:
I think it's really funny that you keep strawmanning and changing the goal posts.

Your initial post suggested "there was no plausible explanation why he chose not to kill baltimore cops" but instead went to NYC to kill cops. I was simply putting forward another "plausible explanation", not stating definitively what I personally believed.

Your hypothetical question that I responded to was not asking why he killed cops in general, it asked why he chose to kill in New York instead of Baltimore.

It's entirely plausible that he chose to kill in New York instead of Baltimore because Garner was killed in New York.

Trying to talk about how he got the idea to kill cops, IN GENERAL, is moving the goal posts from the original comment I was responding to.
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It's also entirely possible he chose to kill in New York instead of Baltimore because he had to get the hell out of Baltimore as fast as possible.
 
Kobie said:
It's also entirely possible he chose to kill in New York instead of Baltimore because he had to get the hell out of Baltimore as fast as possible.
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If getting away were the motive then he wouldn't have killed anywhere after fleeing Baltimore. He was running to something, not from something.
 
There is a difference between not being supportive and being "partly" responsible for a heinous act against police officers. The mayor is guilty of the former, not the latter.

That being said, aside from this tragedy, I have zero sympathy with how the New York police union has dealt with much of the controversy. Of course, I tend to feel that way whenever I get the faint whiff of a union rejecting any sense of reason for tribalism. New York's police union is not the only police union with the stench of unionism over God and country in the past several months.
 
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Zyphlin said:
I think it's really funny that you keep strawmanning and changing the goal posts.

Your initial post suggested "there was no plausible explanation why he chose not to kill baltimore cops" but instead went to NYC to kill cops. I was simply putting forward another "plausible explanation", not stating definitively what I personally believed.

Your hypothetical question that I responded to was not asking why he killed cops in general, it asked why he chose to kill in New York instead of Baltimore.

It's entirely plausible that he chose to kill in New York instead of Baltimore because Garner was killed in New York.

Trying to talk about how he got the idea to kill cops, IN GENERAL, is moving the goal posts from the original comment I was responding to.
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You don't need to twist my words, just react to them if you don't like them.

I said there was no plausible reason why he drove to NYC to kill cops instead of killing cops in Baltimore if it wasn't for the anti-cop rhetoric and the publication of that anti-cop rhetoric coming from NYC. That's undeniable unless you think a little voice informed him of the matter.

You keep dismissing this yet your only explanation is "because Garner was killed by NYC cops". Well, so what? How did he hear about Garner and why did it impress him to the point of driving to NYC to kill cops?

As an aside, I'm interested to see that CNN is now noting that this guy was in NYC 3 hours before he shot the cops, caught on surveillance video in a shopping center in Brooklyn. Police are interested, and I'm pretty interested too, to see what he was doing in NYC for three hours prior to assassinating the cops. Did he meet anyone there? Did he attend any protests? Police are interested to know if he had any accomplices. I'm not sure we've seen or heard all this story has to offer.
 
According to Mayor De Blasio, the media is to blame.

De Blasio blames media and exposes his heart lies with protesters | New York Post

De Blasio blames media and exposes his heart lies with protesters

He accused the reporters assembled in front of him of stoking outrage by focusing on “the few” protesters doing “immoral” things.

“They are wrong,” he said, his voice rising.

“But are you going to keep dividing us? What you manage to do is pull up the few who do not represent the majority.”

He called it “unfair,” and insisted most protesters were peaceful but “you guys enable” the troublemakers.

He went on in the vein for several minutes, becoming more forceful and shutting down a persistent reporter by addressing him as “my friend,” a phrase he paired with a death stare.


Such a great leader. "You guys enable".

Everyone else's fault.
 
tres borrachos said:
The only martyrs in this story are the 2 dead policemen.

The head of the police union has every right to be angry, and like the garbage who chanted that they wanted dead cops, also has the right to say what's on his mind. And he is speaking for thousands of cops in NYC and other places who feel exactly as he does.
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angry yes, but no one, especially those in a leadership role have no right to escalate to incite. The man is a dolt.

The only one I have heard so far being even remotely responsible is the mayor who is calling for calm, and directing people's hearts to the families of all who have lost loved ones.

The rest are simply irresponsible exploiting an enfolding tragedy to further their own selfish ends.
 
tres borrachos said:
According to Mayor De Blasio, the media is to blame.
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Utter putz. how he can turn around and blame the media while not pointing at a similar finger to himself is laughable.

What's even more laughable however is him complaining about the media focusing on "the few" prosters acting wrongly...while ignoring the irony of the fact he was "teaching" his son about the potential problems he'll face from comments due his own focus on "the few" cops who actually act wrong instead of the majority.
 
So if a cop shoots another unarmed black man is it the police union's fault?

I don't think anyone is the blame for killing those two cops, except the shooter. But if there has to be blame then the police union is just as culpable as the protesters or the mayor or anyone else spewing garbage to the media. But when a mayor can't speak the truth and the police start to provoke more trouble than they prevent, then perhaps it's time to rethink that police department from top to bottom starting with the Stop and Frisk and the Broken Window polices and the quality of the police training. If DiBlasio was elected to change those policies then naturally there's going to be resistance within the police department, so he needs to be careful not to alienate the entire police department.

Speaking of the media....they probably hold the most blame for all the lying, exaggerating and fueling the divide between the police and the public these last few months. But the fact is, black men are disproportionally killed by cops and fill the prisons more than whites, so sooner or later the protests and public debate were bound to happen and now is as good a time as any.
 
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Moot said:
So if a cop shoots another unarmed black man is it the police union's fault?

I don't think anyone is the blame for killing those two cops, except the shooter. But if there has to be blame then the police union is just as culpable as the protesters or the mayor or anyone else spewing garbage to the media. But when a mayor can't speak the truth and the police start to provoke more trouble than they prevent, then perhaps it's time to rethink that police department from top to bottom starting with the Stop and Frisk and the Broken Window polices and the quality of the police training. If DiBlasio was elected to change those policies then naturally there's going to be resistance within the police department, so he needs to be careful not to alienate the entire police department.

Speaking of the media....they probably hold the most blame for all the lying, exaggerating and fueling the divide between the police and the public these last few months. But the fact is, black men are disproportionally killed by cops and fill the prisons more than whites, so sooner or later the protests and public debate were bound to happen and now is as good a time as any.
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Big Lie of Anti-Cop Left Turns Lethal - Heather Mac Donald, City Journal
 
Fearandloathing said:
angry yes, but no one, especially those in a leadership role have no right to escalate to incite. The man is a dolt.

The only one I have heard so far being even remotely responsible is the mayor who is calling for calm, and directing people's hearts to the families of all who have lost loved ones.

The rest are simply irresponsible exploiting an enfolding tragedy to further their own selfish ends.
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So the head of the police union's words "escalate to incite", but the Mayor's never did. Okay.
 
Zyphlin said:
Utter putz. how he can turn around and blame the media while not pointing at a similar finger to himself is laughable.

What's even more laughable however is him complaining about the media focusing on "the few" prosters acting wrongly...while ignoring the irony of the fact he was "teaching" his son about the potential problems he'll face from comments due his own focus on "the few" cops who actually act wrong instead of the majority.
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From the looks of things, De Blasio is already a cracker jack politician. And a sneaky little ****er too.

I love your second sentence and it's so spot on. It is ironic, and that's exactly what bothered me too. He should be called out on his hypocrisy, but he won't be except by a very few people.
 
Then where is the class in this?

"The Columbine Mine massacre, sometimes called the Columbine massacre, occurred in 1927, in the town of Serene, Colorado. A fight broke out between Colorado state police and a group of striking coal miners, during which the unarmed miners were attacked with machine guns. It is unclear whether the machine guns were used by the police or by guards working for the mine. Six strikers were killed, and dozens were injured."

Times 1001 strikes and decades.

Danziger bridge too...........and how many are not investigated by 100 people for 10 years...........and get away with it..............
 
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