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Lift sanctions and embargo on North Korea?

Should USA lift sanctions and the embargo against North Korea?


  • Total voters
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joko104

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With so many cheering President Obama's American guilt-tripping unilaterally lifting the embargo on Cuba, isn't it time to lift the embargo on North Korea, for which the same logic means that we are responsible for the suffering of the people of North Korea like it claimed we are responsible for the suffering of the people of Cuba?
 
Interesting question.
 
Comparing Cuba to North Korea is laughably idiotic, so actually right on par with what I'd expect from you.

Kim Jong-un has no interest in trading with the west, if he did, I would say we should. Do you think it would be easier or harder to reach out to the North Korean people if they had more access to the international community and western goods? When you wall off a country from the international community the only voice they can hear is that of their tyrant.

We've embargoed North Korea for 60+ years now. Are we any closer to getting through to the people? Why help build up the wall that keeps North Koreans trapped?
 
Comparing Cuba to North Korea is laughably idiotic, so actually right on par with what I'd expect from you.

Kim Jong-un has no interest in trading with the west, if he did, I would say we should. Do you think it would be easier or harder to reach out to the North Korean people if they had more access to the international community and western goods? When you wall off a country from the international community the only voice they can hear is that of their tyrant.

We've embargoed North Korea for 60+ years now. Are we any closer to getting through to the people? Why help build up the wall that keeps North Koreans trapped?

You are blinded by your hatred of the United States.

It would NOT be Western goods going into N. Korea. It would be cheap goods made in N. Korean sweatshops of children worked with whips, which would slam the economy of South Korea and the profits used by N. Korea to build weapons and further terrorize their own people and everyone else in the region.

No surprise wanting as much money flowing to the N. Korean war and torture machinery as possible because this poises danger to the USA and our allies.
 
You are blinded by your hatred of the United States.

It would NOT be Western goods going into N. Korea. It would be cheap goods made in N. Korean sweatshops of children worked with whips, which would slam the economy of South Korea and the profits used by N. Korea to build weapons and further terrorize their own people and everyone else in the region.

No surprise wanting as much money flowing to the N. Korean war and torture machinery as possible because this poises danger to the USA and our allies.

Ah yes, instead of forming a coherent response you just move straight to insults. I obviously hate America because my opinion differs from yours. Instead of trying to expose the North Korean people to civilization we should help Kim Jong-Un continue to wall off the country. Stay classy and Merry Christmas, Joko.
 
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Ah yes, instead of forming a coherent response you just move straight to insults. I obviously hate America because my opinion differs from yours. Instead of trying to expose the North Korean people to civilization we should help Kim Jong-Un continue to wall off the country. Stay classy and Merry Christmas, Joko.

You forgot to also use the bold feature in altering my message.

Otherwise, you didn't respond whatsoever to my response to your false assertion that it would be Western goods going to NK, rather than cheap slave labor goods coming out of NK, the money of which future's the war machinery and tyranny of the torturous dictatorship. You don't have a coherent response, do you?
 
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With so many cheering President Obama's American guilt-tripping unilaterally lifting the embargo on Cuba, isn't it time to lift the embargo on North Korea, for which the same logic means that we are responsible for the suffering of the people of North Korea like it claimed we are responsible for the suffering of the people of Cuba?

Provide North Korea with the financial means of increasing their military might and capabilities with money earned from trade? Not only no but hell no.
 
With so many cheering President Obama's American guilt-tripping unilaterally lifting the embargo on Cuba, isn't it time to lift the embargo on North Korea, for which the same logic means that we are responsible for the suffering of the people of North Korea like it claimed we are responsible for the suffering of the people of Cuba?

Too many problems comparing Cuba and North Korea along those lines. In a better world the answer would be yes but that is not a very practical solution to the issues each nation presents to us.

The embargo / isolation foreign policy we have tried for Cuba for better than 50 years did not promote much change in that nation, but Cuba has found plenty of means to trade and have relations with plenty of nations around the globe including some of our allies. In comparison North Korea has not been near as successful. Cuba is looking for active relations where as North Korea seems more content in their isolation.

On military or engagement terms Cuba is also not firing medium / long range rockets over other nations in an effort to cause the instability in our region, but that is something North Korea is known for between bouts of firing into South Korea. And on the level Cuba does not consider themselves in some long term break from a war with a neighbor like North Korea believes in their opinion of South Korea. While Cuba and their regime does have plenty they do not get along with, it is not quite the same thing as how North Korea looks at nations that oppose their regime.

In my opinion lifting the embargo against and looking for relations with Cuba has the potential for an impact that is far less likely with North Korea. I am not saying there is a guarantee of change but there seems to be potential opportunity with Cuba that does not exist with North Korea.
 
Comparing Cuba to North Korea is laughably idiotic, so actually right on par with what I'd expect from you.

Kim Jong-un has no interest in trading with the west, if he did, I would say we should. Do you think it would be easier or harder to reach out to the North Korean people if they had more access to the international community and western goods? When you wall off a country from the international community the only voice they can hear is that of their tyrant.

We've embargoed North Korea for 60+ years now. Are we any closer to getting through to the people? Why help build up the wall that keeps North Koreans trapped?

They will make and export cheap goods and then use the revenue to increase their military might and capabilities. Basically they will do what China did when traitors in office decided to ship jobs to China.
 
They will make and export cheap goods and then use the revenue to increase their military might and capabilities. Basically they will do what China did when traitors in office decided to ship jobs to China.

So instead you think that we should help Kim Jong-Un isolate his people from the rest of the world? Their regime has only been able to last as long as it has because it has been able to completely isolate the people from reality and education.

We continue to do business with some of the most despicable governments in the world, to include China. So what's really the difference? This embargo could last for another 100 years and still not change anything. Embargoes such as this make it North Koreans vs. Americans instead of North Koreans vs. the tyrant. Kim Jong-Un can not be defeated without being able to reach the people in some way. I mean really, what is your end-game here?
 
So instead you think that we should help Kim Jong-Un isolate his people from the rest of the world? Their regime has only been able to last as long as it has because it has been able to completely isolate the people from reality and education.

We continue to do business with some of the most despicable governments in the world, to include China. So what's really the difference? This embargo could last for another 100 years and still not change anything. Embargoes such as this make it North Koreans vs. Americans instead of North Koreans vs. the tyrant. Kim Jong-Un can not be defeated without being able to reach the people in some way. I mean really, what is your end-game here?

Does it infuriate you THAT much that N. Korea has not been capable of military expansion or invasion?

How many missiles and weapons do you want Kim Jung-Un to have? Obviously piles of weapons and a new way to use his people for slave labor for his profit.

Is there any tyrant, dictator and torturer in the world you don't want to rain money on? Your end game is clear. You want to pour money on Kim Jong-Un and give him more ways to profit and make power thru using his people as slave-labor for us and his benefit.

Only a fool believes that Kim Jong-Un will let his people have the profits.

The same happened in Cuba. The embargo made it no longer possible for Cuba to finance revolution in Central and South America.
 
I understand the goal of some. N. Korea has a massive military, but it considered impotent because all their hardware is outdated old surplus that is decades old.

There are those what want to pour in money to Kim Jong-Un so he can modernize his military and revive the Communist revolution in S.E. Asia and across the world. They'll call it "fairness" and sell the myth that Kim Jong-Un the Generous Socialist - in their opinion - would give the wealth to his people and the whole world would live in harmony.

Instead, they know they would be financing his long range missile program and provide his military with modern military equipment to threaten the entire region and spread around the world. Communism and state dictated socialism is still very popular in some liberal circles, as is hatred of the USA.
 
Ah yes, instead of forming a coherent response you just move straight to insults. I obviously hate America because my opinion differs from yours. Instead of trying to expose the North Korean people to civilization we should help Kim Jong-Un continue to wall off the country. Stay classy and Merry Christmas, Joko.

To be fair, your initial reply was pretty insulting as well.
 
To be fair, your initial reply was pretty insulting as well.

Justifiably so, I believe, as this was a call-out thread spun off from a "conversation" we were having a few minutes prior somewhere else.

You know how it is with Joko, if you ever disagree with him you're a baby killing flag burner.
 
Justifiably so, I believe, as this was a call-out thread spun off from a "conversation" we were having a few minutes prior somewhere else.

You know how it is with Joko, if you ever disagree with him you're a baby killing flag burner.

Good point. I do know.
 
Justifiably so, I believe, as this was a call-out thread spun off from a "conversation" we were having a few minutes prior somewhere else.

You know how it is with Joko, if you ever disagree with him you're a baby killing flag burner.

You're message isn't rational or about me. I'm the one called a baby killer being pro-choice.

Come clean, how many long range nuclear bomb tipped missiles and how much new military hardware to you want Kim Jong-Un to have? How many of his people do you want working in sweatshops for him? Give us a number.
 
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Good point. I do know.

What matters is he had no response whatsoever to any issue I raised, did he? That is how he deals with responses in his messages to messages he has no response to.

The socialist left with their golden tongue American-apologist Emperor Obama has gained control of American foreign policy. The effects are significant.

Their golden era of communism/socialism has all but come to an end. The USSR collapsed. China went capitalistic. ALL that is left if N. Korea and Michael Moore's utopia of Cuba. Both countries on the edge of financial ruin because of their economic system. History shows us that ULTIMATELY it all will collapse, it is only a matter of time before the people rise up.

For N. Korea, Kim Jong-Un is having to execute military and even family members to prevent his being deposed by his own people. Cubans are tired of it.

Suddenly, and unilaterally in a total breaking of his campaign promises and declaring the embargo failed (when it was HUGELY successful in starving out Cuba continuing to finance and support revolutions in Central and South America) Obama announced that the Cuban socialist dictatorship is going to be propped up by American capitalistic dollars - which the socialist left will then claim proves socialist dictatorships work.

We even are reading the American socialist left cheering Putin trying to recreate the USSR.

With no debate, no discussion, no involvement of Congress, the President totally reversed the entire US foreign policy towards adversarial communist/social dicatorships - a policy that had absolutely worked including the end of the USSR.

I poised this poll to show just how far this goes for some of the socialist left. Despite it as recent as this week that N. Korea attacked the West, it revealed has put teams in place to destroy USA nuclear power plants, and every month threatens nuclear attack against our allies in the region, such as him want BILLIONS of dollars to flow to Kim Jong-Un, him to put NKs into sweatshop labor, the effect of which he can develop his long range missiles - that he offers for sale around the world, expand his nuclear weapons stockpile and modernize his highly militarized society - also then placating the military that otherwise increasingly wants him deposed because are starving.

The only response he has? Personal attacks and take the victim role to avoid any response at all.

One of the LAST of TWO vestiges of communist socialist dictatorships on the verge of collapse was just saved by the American socialist left and their Imperial President. And accepting Obama at face value, most Americans agree. No discussion of do we want easy flow between the USA and a country still harboring terrorists and a cop killer, a drug cartel country and money laundering location just off our shore - that is being financed and propped up by American capitalistic money?

With NO debate, the core of American foreign policy was just obliterated in relation to communistic socialist dictatorships. I'm not a lock-step sheep and am telling the REAL implications of this - something no one else is doing - and most are just posting feel-good messages.

As for Cubans? They were just imprisoned under a cruel military dictator and socialism for this and the next generation. America just saved socialistic dictatorships as seemingly viable after all.
 
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So instead you think that we should help Kim Jong-Un isolate his people from the rest of the world? Their regime has only been able to last as long as it has because it has been able to completely isolate the people from reality and education.

North Korea will still be able to do that to it's people regardless if we do or do not open trade with them. The people who live high on the hog in North Korea want to continue to live that way.They are not going to give that up.

We continue to do business with some of the most despicable governments in the world, to include China.

We should not be doing business with China.
 
Noting good will happen as long as Obama is in office in terms of keeping North Korea and her puppet master Communist China contained.

More sanctions are needed againt China. People have forgotten the old saying, "Let China sleep, when she awakens the world will be sorry."
 
Where's the, "Oh hell No!" option?
 
Comparing Cuba to North Korea is laughably idiotic, so actually right on par with what I'd expect from you.

Kim Jong-un has no interest in trading with the west, if he did, I would say we should. Do you think it would be easier or harder to reach out to the North Korean people if they had more access to the international community and western goods? When you wall off a country from the international community the only voice they can hear is that of their tyrant.

We've embargoed North Korea for 60+ years now. Are we any closer to getting through to the people? Why help build up the wall that keeps North Koreans trapped?

Exactly.

Interesting question though.

Look at - to my knowledge - the three longest U.S. embargoes of foreign countries...Iran, Cuba and North Korea.

All these embargoes did was cause huge suffering for their people, ensure the lousy leaders stayed in power (as they blamed all that was bad on the Americans) and resulted in zero regime changes.

I believe that Kim what's-his-guts would HATE for the embargo to be lifted. If it were, he could no longer blame his countries miserable economy on America. He would be the one taking the blame and the people would (imo) quickly rise up and overthrow him.

If America truly wants to help the North Korean people, they will end this ridiculous embargo (though it was FAR less ridiculous then the Cuban one) and force that fat f*ck out of power.
 
unfortunately there was no Hell NO option because that is the one I would have gone for.
 
Where's the, "Oh hell No!" option?

My thoughts exactly, posted my response before I saw yours or I would have just quoted and added "ditto"
 
Exactly.

Interesting question though.

Look at - to my knowledge - the three longest U.S. embargoes of foreign countries...Iran, Cuba and North Korea.

All these embargoes did was cause huge suffering for their people, ensure the lousy leaders stayed in power (as they blamed all that was bad on the Americans) and resulted in zero regime changes.

I believe that Kim what's-his-guts would HATE for the embargo to be lifted. If it were, he could no longer blame his countries miserable economy on America. He would be the one taking the blame and the people would (imo) quickly rise up and overthrow him.

If America truly wants to help the North Korean people, they will end this ridiculous embargo (though it was FAR less ridiculous then the Cuban one) and force that fat f*ck out of power.

It's rather idiotic really. We've helped Kim Jong-Un wall his people off from the modern world. His voice is the only voice any of them hear, and that voice is loudly screaming that they're starving because we're embargoing them.

Take a look at Russia recently. Our sanctions have had a fair effect, because their economy has become entwined with the world economy over the past 24 years. By embargoing North Korea for 60 years, we've limited our own options, as there's no other tool we can use to influence their behavior other than war.

I can get on board with short term sanctions and embargoes, but when you do it for decades you neuter your own power and end up screwing the citizens of the country you're embargoing. I think the core of the matter is that coward Americans just want to embargo everyone they see as a threat. It's never been about helping or freeing the people, it's been about protecting their own asses.

Where's the, "Oh hell No!" option?
unfortunately there was no Hell NO option because that is the one I would have gone for.

You're right, it's been working so well so far and Kim Jong-Un is on his knees.
 
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