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After 54 years, was the Cuban embargo a failed policy or not

What is your opinion of the Cuban embargo?

  • It was right then and it should not be lifted

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • It was wrong then and it is right to be lifted

    Votes: 16 45.7%
  • It was right then and it right to be lifted

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • It was wrong then but it should not be lifted

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other, please explain .............

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • I hate those rotten commies, bomb them out of Cuba now!!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I am a peaceful person, let's all go over to Cuba to hug commies

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • I do not care one way or another / I have no opinion

    Votes: 2 5.7%

  • Total voters
    35
Thank goodness mr. Gross is back from Cuba after 5 horrible years.

You can think what you want of that, bringing illegal materials to a country that has rules clearly not allowing that is not smart. Jailing him instead of just deporting him was also a wrong decision from the Cuban authorities but that is now all solved because he is free.

It looks like president Obama is going to strive for better relations with Cuba because it does not look like the police of the past 54 years has worked. The US trades with just about any other country in the world and by any reasonable standard the embargo policy has failed.

What do you think? Was the embargo wrong or was it not the wrong decisions? Or was it right then and is it wrong to now continue it?

I think it was right all during the cold war. Remember it was the Cuban Missile Crisis that started all of this. Castro then sent his troops to Africa and Central America to help the commies there during the cold war. Castro was the USSR's stooge, proxy if you will.

But I think after the breakup of the USSR, it has sort of outlived its usefulness. But other than that, I really don't care one way of the other.
 
I wonder, all those protesting politicians. Are they afraid of loosing the Cuban vote in Florida? Are they genuinely of the opinion that the embargo was an effective tool of changing the ways of the communist government of Cuba? Or are they so stuck in their ways that they afraid that the die hard pro-embargo people in their own party are going to cause them to loose votes? It was a pretty safe bet to be pro-embargo before now, maybe the tides will be turning when the American public turns out to not be against diplomatic and trade relations with Cuba?

I do not know but from some politicians I can respect that they are anti-lifting of the embargo (those with Cuban blood so to speak) but for most politicians I have little respect or understanding for wanting to prolong a policy that has neither worked nor been beneficial to the US people/Cuban Americans.
 
If it would have been spying yes, but for illegally importing the 15 years was way too harsh. If jail was warranted it should be in accordance with the economical offense he committed, not for spying.

Are you familiar with how Cuba treats its criminals?

How can you say 15 years wasn't right?

It may have been a short sentence for a Cuban.

Another point is that you only know what the media is telling you.

I am sure there was more to the story than any of us know.
 
Back to the OP, it's kinda hard to estimate or under-estimate the impact of the embargo, as you are left to estimate what 'might' have happened in circumstances other than reality, and that inherently is hard to estimate and produce hard numbers with the level of uncertainty of the assumptions.

It is certainly very likely that had there been no embargo that Cuba's economic development and growth would have been greater, within limits of what a Socialistic economy can accomplish as to growth.

What growth rates have other Socialist economies delivered? Russia's failed and converted into something far more capitalistic, as has China's. North Korea's is so woeful they can't even feed their own people properly.
 
I wonder, all those protesting politicians. Are they afraid of loosing the Cuban vote in Florida? Are they genuinely of the opinion that the embargo was an effective tool of changing the ways of the communist government of Cuba? Or are they so stuck in their ways that they afraid that the die hard pro-embargo people in their own party are going to cause them to loose votes? It was a pretty safe bet to be pro-embargo before now, maybe the tides will be turning when the American public turns out to not be against diplomatic and trade relations with Cuba?

I do not know but from some politicians I can respect that they are anti-lifting of the embargo (those with Cuban blood so to speak) but for most politicians I have little respect or understanding for wanting to prolong a policy that has neither worked nor been beneficial to the US people/Cuban Americans.

I think during the cold war, with Cuba sending their troops to Africa to fight along side of other communist forces in several countries trying to over throw legitimate governments and to Nicaragua to back up the Sandinistas as a surrogate of the USSR, the embargo made sense and was warranted. The fact the USSR had to send millions of Rubles to Cuba to shore up their economy probably helped in the long run to cause the USSR to dissolve.

It was indeed warranted during that time frame. So I sort of look at the embargo as a relic of the cold war. Others look at it different. If it is done away with, fine. If not, no biggie. It has become a way of life and both countries have adjusted to it long ago. Would lifting it help the Cuban people or the regime, the way they operate the regime will be take care first with perhaps some scraps getting down to the people.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try something different.
 
Are you familiar with how Cuba treats its criminals?

How can you say 15 years wasn't right?

It may have been a short sentence for a Cuban.

Another point is that you only know what the media is telling you.

I am sure there was more to the story than any of us know.

Yes, I know how horrible Cuba is.

Still does not change the fact that I think 15 years was way too harsh for his "crime".
 
Thank goodness mr. Gross is back from Cuba after 5 horrible years.

You can think what you want of that, bringing illegal materials to a country that has rules clearly not allowing that is not smart. Jailing him instead of just deporting him was also a wrong decision from the Cuban authorities but that is now all solved because he is free.

It looks like president Obama is going to strive for better relations with Cuba because it does not look like the police of the past 54 years has worked. The US trades with just about any other country in the world and by any reasonable standard the embargo policy has failed.

What do you think? Was the embargo wrong or was it not the wrong decisions? Or was it right then and is it wrong to now continue it?

I say it was right.As for whether or not it should be lifted now I do not know. I do know that when a country is able to increase it's tax revenue it increases the size and capabilities of it's military which can be a threat to us.For years republicans talked about how communist are evil, communist suck balls and other **** about communist.Democrats for years talked about how they care about the American worker. But then one republicans and democrats who had their mouths on the dicks of business owners decided it was a "awesome" idea to **** the American worker in the ass with no lube and lifted up restrictions in order to allow for companies to outsource to China. China since then has increased the size and capabilities of it's military. I am sure Cuba will do the same thing. Whether or not they become a threat to us I do not know. If it looks like they will be a threat the embargo shouldn't be lifted.
 
I say it was right.As for whether or not it should be lifted now I do not know. I do know that when a country is able to increase it's tax revenue it increases the size and capabilities of it's military which can be a threat to us.For years republicans talked about how communist are evil, communist suck balls and other **** about communist.Democrats for years talked about how they care about the American worker. But then one republicans and democrats who had their mouths on the dicks of business owners decided it was a "awesome" idea to **** the American worker in the ass with no lube and lifted up restrictions in order to allow for companies to outsource to China. China since then has increased the size and capabilities of it's military. I am sure Cuba will do the same thing. Whether or not they become a threat to us I do not know. If it looks like they will be a threat the embargo shouldn't be lifted.

I doubt anybody but the Chinese would sell weapons to the Cubans. And the Cubans must know that if they built up an actual military they would again be subject to the threat of an embargo. It is still a useful weapon to have against the Cuban government, but for now, we have no signs to say that the Cubans would use the increased revenue to become a threat to their biggest money provider in the region (after the embargo has been lifted). The Cuban government may be corrupt, evil and immoral, they are not stupid. If they do something to endanger that trade with the US they would be incredibly stupid. They are not stupid like Venezuela (they can do it because they have oil). Cuba has no natural resources or they would not be so terribly poor and underdeveloped.
 
Cuban continues to be a safe haven asylum for terrorists and criminals. The President didn't bother to ask for the return of the American cop killer as a condition and Cuba is a free doorway to the USA for NK. Cuban is the safe haven for Columbian terror and drug cartels, including responsible for 700 kidnappings including Americans. Cuban also is a money laundering country.

In all the GUILT-TRIPPING of the American left who claim the USA is responsible for the suffering of Cubans, NO benefit of lifting the embargo has even been hinted at OTHER than accusations against the United States in this of King Obama's next open-borders edicts.
 
Screw Cuban-Americans in the cigar industry. Let's bankrupt those small business owners and send those jobs to Cuba too.

Cuba will make a great new cheap labor country to export American jobs to in Obama's Americans-last policies. Besides, Haiti, Jamaica and the other Caribbean countries are so wrongly wealthy they need the competition from a sweatshop dictatorship's cheap labor.

Reward our enemies and punish our friends, the new American foreign policy doctrine.
 
IIRC it's only the US that is in the embargo. Cuba is free to trade with and have tourism from the rest of the world. Until they agree to transition to democracy and improve human rights, only the Cuban elites would benefit from open trade. My Dad has been on a couple of missions to Cuba and it's the epitome of a third-world Communist country where most have nothing unless the government allows it.

As opposed to the 'democratic' third world nations where our agreements mostly benefit the capitalist elites and leadership cronies. The same third world democratic countries where the average citizen gets the left overs after the elite pick through the wealth and get nothing unless the government allows it.

Context is everything.
 
As opposed to the 'democratic' third world nations where our agreements mostly benefit the capitalist elites and leadership cronies. The same third world democratic countries where the average citizen gets the left overs after the elite pick through the wealth and get nothing unless the government allows it.

Context is everything.

In this case we're talking about Cuba. Castro could have chosen to go with the US capitalist model but chose Communism which takes all and doles out just enough to survive.
 
In this case we're talking about Cuba. Castro could have chosen to go with the US capitalist model but chose Communism which takes all and doles out just enough to survive.

In this case you are being blind to the culture we encourage south of the border. :doh

Castro could have chosen to allow the huge US business interests, to include the Mafia, free reign like Basista did but when he baulked the good ol' USofA got all butt hurt and attempted a series of assassination attempts, some so comical the CIA was a laughing stock and some so tragic (Bay of Pigs) the covert ops dept was shaken to the core.

Like Iran's democracy of the 50's, Chilean CIA sponsored Coup of '73, Pinochet in Argentina, if they dare to go against our wishes we get spoiled brat mean, if they pretend to be anti-commie then we see no evil.... :roll:
 
The embargo was VERY successful. It prevented Cuba being able to continue to finance and export revolution and socialism throughout Central and South America. It prevented Cuba from have the funds to being a major financer of weapons for such revolutions and terrorism.

As for the "Mafia," Castro became the head of his own Mafia - with the military to back it up. The Cuban government is a drug cartel and open safe haven for terrorists and cop-killers.

You are correct in that the Bay of Pigs was a disaster. The disaster was the betrayal of President Kennedy who, after promised they would have air support, left those we supported to take back Cuba to be slaughtered and captured.

We now have a President who has made it clear he's not anti-commie. In fact, he is their savior.
 
I wonder, all those protesting politicians. Are they afraid of loosing the Cuban vote in Florida? Are they genuinely of the opinion that the embargo was an effective tool of changing the ways of the communist government of Cuba? Or are they so stuck in their ways that they afraid that the die hard pro-embargo people in their own party are going to cause them to loose votes? It was a pretty safe bet to be pro-embargo before now, maybe the tides will be turning when the American public turns out to not be against diplomatic and trade relations with Cuba?

I do not know but from some politicians I can respect that they are anti-lifting of the embargo (those with Cuban blood so to speak) but for most politicians I have little respect or understanding for wanting to prolong a policy that has neither worked nor been beneficial to the US people/Cuban Americans.

There are still some Americans who don't like Cuba being the safe haven and asylum of terrorists, kidnappers and American-cop killers.

The policy was hugely beneficial to the USA and all of the Americas. But, since you disagree, post your list of the countries you wished Cuban forces to invade and the list of countries you wanted Cuban filtered weapons to arm their socialists revolutions?
 
It is amazing how people just parrot a line "the embargo was a failed policy" - have NO clue the history of it.

If anyone can give a GOOD reason why Cuba should have had nuclear weapons the last 5 decades, tell what it is since Cuba not having nuclear tipped missiles is part of the "failed policy."
 
I think during the cold war, with Cuba sending their troops to Africa to fight along side of other communist forces in several countries trying to over throw legitimate governments and to Nicaragua to back up the Sandinistas as a surrogate of the USSR, the embargo made sense and was warranted. The fact the USSR had to send millions of Rubles to Cuba to shore up their economy probably helped in the long run to cause the USSR to dissolve.

It was indeed warranted during that time frame. So I sort of look at the embargo as a relic of the cold war. Others look at it different. If it is done away with, fine. If not, no biggie. It has become a way of life and both countries have adjusted to it long ago. Would lifting it help the Cuban people or the regime, the way they operate the regime will be take care first with perhaps some scraps getting down to the people.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try something different.


When it comes to socialistic military dictatorships the left absolutely believes in trickle down economics because of the inherent goodness in the hearts of military tyrants. That literally is what they are claiming about Cuba now, isn't it?

As for your history of Cuba and revolutions? They don't know anything about that and don't care. Obama and the media have spoken. It always was "a failed policy" - having no clue what that policy was or why. Just the growing popular view that the USA historically is the most evil country in the world.
 
When it comes to socialistic military dictatorships the left absolutely believes in trickle down economics because of the inherent goodness in the hearts of military tyrants. That literally is what they are claiming about Cuba now, isn't it?

As for your history of Cuba and revolutions? They don't know anything about that and don't care. Obama and the media have spoken. It always was "a failed policy" - having no clue what that policy was or why. Just the growing popular view that the USA historically is the most evil country in the world.

Most Americans I do not think know history or what the root causes that made us do some of the things we did. Most Americans see a revision of history that was written by college professors with a huge liberal slant. Being as old as I am I lived through the cold war and being military participated in it both on active duty and as a Department of the Army Civilian. Cuba and Castro was a lap dog of the USSR to be used as the USSR saw fit.
 
The embargo was VERY successful. It prevented Cuba being able to continue to finance and export revolution and socialism throughout Central and South America. It prevented Cuba from have the funds to being a major financer of weapons for such revolutions and terrorism. As for the "Mafia," Castro became the head of his own Mafia - with the military to back it up. The Cuban government is a drug cartel and open safe haven for terrorists and cop-killers. You are correct in that the Bay of Pigs was a disaster. The disaster was the betrayal of President Kennedy who, after promised they would have air support, left those we supported to take back Cuba to be slaughtered and captured. We now have a President who has made it clear he's not anti-commie. In fact, he is their savior.

Cuba has had a very active 'export' business across the world, lest some forget the far flung places where Cuban 'volunteers' served. Revolution is a cheap business that got Soviet weapon/monetary support. It cost the 'free world' a great deal of men and money to fight the Cuban advisors.

Spin the Mafia connection but prior to the Revolution the American based Mafia enjoyed tremendous power and wealth in Cuba. Funny you should claim Cuba is the safe haven for all the world's bad guys but many of our 'dear friends and allies' south of the Rio are as well, very good blinders you have there...

Bay of Pigs... you regurgitate the same old CON lines but fact is the Invasion was a very poorly planned and executed mission... they invaded a swamp!!!! There was air support as B26 bombers operated against Cuban airfields and convoys. (the CIA missed the fact that many jets they thought were unarmed trainers were in fact armed)

But too few too poorly trained and led, in a piss poor invasion beach to have any sort of 60's air support past massive carpet bombing 'work'. The Invasion was based on the false siren song of the people eager to be 'free' (sound familiar President BushII with ex-pats claiming we would be greeted with flowers and candy???)

It wasn't based on a force of arms defeating The Cuban military in a pitched battle.

The day when a President has to be 'anti-commie' are thankfully behind us. Might want to build a bridge and get over it... :peace
 
Cuba has had a very active 'export' business across the world, lest some forget the far flung places where Cuban 'volunteers' served. Revolution is a cheap business that got Soviet weapon/monetary support. It cost the 'free world' a great deal of men and money to fight the Cuban advisors.

Spin the Mafia connection but prior to the Revolution the American based Mafia enjoyed tremendous power and wealth in Cuba. Funny you should claim Cuba is the safe haven for all the world's bad guys but many of our 'dear friends and allies' south of the Rio are as well, very good blinders you have there...

Bay of Pigs... you regurgitate the same old CON lines but fact is the Invasion was a very poorly planned and executed mission... they invaded a swamp!!!! There was air support as B26 bombers operated against Cuban airfields and convoys. (the CIA missed the fact that many jets they thought were unarmed trainers were in fact armed)

But too few too poorly trained and led, in a piss poor invasion beach to have any sort of 60's air support past massive carpet bombing 'work'. The Invasion was based on the false siren song of the people eager to be 'free' (sound familiar President BushII with ex-pats claiming we would be greeted with flowers and candy???)

It wasn't based on a force of arms defeating The Cuban military in a pitched battle.

The day when a President has to be 'anti-commie' are thankfully behind us. Might want to build a bridge and get over it... :peace

You are correct that the President isn't anti-communist anymore. He is their savior.

The Mafia angle is irrelevant as the Castro regime is a criminal organization.

I'm not sure you logic that there are other havens for terrorists and criminals in the world. I guess you like them all.

Of the Bay of Pigs, I'll withdraw my statement as I'm not all the familiar with it and don't want to dig into it for research.

The Batista government being evil and Mafia powerful in Cuba doesn't change anything. The Castro regime is a criminal operation and drug cartel, it's on Mafia. If there is a benefit to opening the door to Cuba's government run crime ring I'd be interested to read the logic of it being in our benefit of building a bridge for them into the USA.
 
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There are still some Americans who don't like Cuba being the safe haven and asylum of terrorists, kidnappers and American-cop killers.

The policy was hugely beneficial to the USA and all of the Americas. But, since you disagree, post your list of the countries you wished Cuban forces to invade and the list of countries you wanted Cuban filtered weapons to arm their socialists revolutions?

Hugely beneficial? It has entrenched the Cuban government possibly for year and years and years after the fall of the wall/end of the cold war.

That Cuba has grown into the enemy of the US is not just the fault of the Cubans. Well, maybe Cuba would have been willing to extradite criminals to the US if there had been a normal relationship between the 2 countries.

And maybe in the communist cold war times Cuba helped marxist forces in other countries but the cold war is over and done with. The same goes for the military power of Cuba.
 
The Cuban Embargo was a nasty and mean spirited policy from Day One. It was designed to
hurt the people of Cuba. It seems to be something the USA likes to do, while squealing
Human Rights tripe. Torture, Iraq, Guantanamo, Libya, Ukraine, etc. are projections of
bad USA policy and it is definitely not a manifestation of the thoughts of average USA
individuals and families. We should be a lot better than that. Let the people speak.

It was brought in as a response to the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. It was not known then what level the US played in the attack, and the Kennedy administration and they wanted to appear strong.

and you are correct, tripe about human rights is just that. On the south side of the island are hundreds of people being held without trial, without due process, without a lawyer and without ANY protection under the constitution.

You may not agree nor like the Cuban system, but they do have due process, trials and so forth.

You should be a lot better....Vietnam is a half a world away, Cuba is your neighbor
 
I will put it to you this way the usa has worked with and been in bed with a lot of dictators worse than castro.. fidel castro asked the usa first to help him rebuild cuba we said no. So where did he go for help????? russia now whos fault is that??? same for ho chi mien and the veitnam war..
 
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