View Poll Results: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

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  • All were tortured.

    3 12.00%
  • Some were tortured.

    5 20.00%
  • None were tortured.

    16 64.00%
  • I don't know.

    1 4.00%
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Thread: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

  1. #11
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Well sure, when someone says torture, you think of intense physical and possibly permanent damage. Those recent beheadings were torture, if you ask me. The problem is trying to lump what the U.S. did with things like that.

    I do doubt the majority of the U.S. agrees with that nothing should have been done, but can you, at least, understand why some people were pissed off that it happened?
    Pissed off that what exactly happened? A lot happened so you're going to have to be more specific.

    By your definition anyone who is murdered but not instantly, was tortured. I simply don't like redefining words to suit political purposes.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The OP's argument is utter garbage. By the same logic, the U.S. "tortured" Nazi soldiers to death when we bombed the buildings they were located in.

    Torture is a deliberate intentional intention to inflicting suffering on another human being. Most ways of violently killing people also lead to suffering, but that is a byproduct, not the purpose of the act. 9/11 was mass murder, not torture.

    To be clear, you're comparing WWII soldiers with the highjackers and those inside the WTC as the Nazis. Ok. You gotta live by your own rules, though. If you're saying they're the same and the high jackers committed mass murder then so did the WWII soldiers against the Nazis.

    And my arguments are "gutter"?

  3. #13
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    What a bizarre question...you spends time thinking of these things?

    What does it possibly matter even if it was torture?

    It's like asking were the Jews on the trains going to Auschwitz concentration camp tortured by being treated so badly before they were eventually killed? What difference does it make? They were brutally murdered is what matters. Not if their treatment constitutes torture before they were murdered.

    What is the point to the question?
    Is there some question that Jews were tortured during the Holocaust? I honestly thought everyone was in agreement on that point and I do think it significant.

  4. #14
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    What RabidAlpaca said.

    And no, they weren't tortured.
    What some did was died with a lot of fear and in gruesome conditions. The "lucky" ones were the ones that died instantly. The most unlucky ones were the ones that may have survived the collapse and died slowly under the weight of the building. But it isn't torture. It's just a horrid way to die.

  5. #15
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    This came up on talk radio and I thought it an interesting question because I haven't ever thought about it in those terms. Was it torture to be on one of those high jacked planes? How about being trapped in the WTC towers were the heat and smoke was so intense that several chose to leap to their deaths instead? I think a strong argument can be made that they were not only tortured, they were tortured to death. What do you think?

    Attaching the poll now.
    If you completely redefine the word torture to render it entirely meaningless, then yes, they were tortured.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    If you completely redefine the word torture to render it entirely meaningless, then yes, they were tortured.
    Really? Let's look at the dictionary definition of torture:

    1tor·ture noun \ˈtȯr-chər\
    : the act of causing severe physical pain as a form of punishment or as a way to force someone to do or say something

    : something that causes mental or physical suffering : a very painful or unpleasant experience

    So you're saying that is not just inapplicable, it's so out of the same league that the very idea could only be described as delusional. That about cover it?

  7. #17
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    What RabidAlpaca said.

    And no, they weren't tortured.
    What some did was died with a lot of fear and in gruesome conditions. The "lucky" ones were the ones that died instantly. The most unlucky ones were the ones that may have survived the collapse and died slowly under the weight of the building. But it isn't torture. It's just a horrid way to die.

    So some 9/11 victims were downright lucky while those who suffered more were simply unlucky. Damn their bad luck. Luck it the only true culprit here.

  8. #18
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    To be clear, you're comparing WWII soldiers with the highjackers and those inside the WTC as the Nazis. Ok. You gotta live by your own rules, though. If you're saying they're the same and the high jackers committed mass murder then so did the WWII soldiers against the Nazis.

    And my arguments are "gutter"?
    WW2 bombs were mass killing, just the same as 9/11. The WW2 bombings were not mass murder, because killing done to military targets serving a nation we had issued a declaration of war against is not murder.

    Torture, killing, murder, these words all have definitions.

  9. #19
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Really? Let's look at the dictionary definition of torture:

    1tor·ture noun \ˈtȯr-chər\
    : the act of causing severe physical pain as a form of punishment or as a way to force someone to do or say something

    : something that causes mental or physical suffering : a very painful or unpleasant experience

    So you're saying that is not just inapplicable, it's so out of the same league that the very idea could only be described as delusional. That about cover it?
    Let's use US law:
    (1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
    (2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
    (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
    (B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
    (C) the threat of imminent death; or
    (D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
    If I'm judging where your thread is going correctly, waterboarding meets the definition of torture because it works by causing the person subjected to it to believe they'll be drowned, which meets part C of the definition of torture.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Were 9/11 Victims Tortured?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So some 9/11 victims were downright lucky while those who suffered more were simply unlucky. Damn their bad luck. Luck it the only true culprit here.
    Don't be coy.
    It's why I put "lucky" in " ".

    But I think you and I can both agree that should you have to die, it's preferable to die instantly than slowly, maybe in pain, maybe in emotional agony. There is no chance of escape or rescue, you can just choose on how to die. A dim prospect, a dim proposal, but that's what was on the table on 9/11. A choice between various degrees of awful scenarios to die.

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