View Poll Results: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

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  • Jeb

    150 27.83%
  • Hillary

    389 72.17%
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Thread: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

  1. #71
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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    That is a horrible proposition.
    And yet a massive upgrade from today's circumstances.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Apparently a lot of folks on this site do not like either candidate if that is the choice. They're kind of like me in 2012, I didn't care for my choices, so I voted for Gary Johnson. Third party is a very realistic choice as is not voting.

    So here, if you want to see the latest polls with different matchups vs. Hillary, have a look:

    RealClearPolitics - 2016 Presidential Race

    I suppose the bottom line to the cop outs is one never has to vote for either a Republican or a Democrat. Although the two major parties push the mantra that if they don't, it is a wasted vote because a third party candidate can't win. I am of the conclusion if one votes for a Republican or Democrat, that is a wasted vote as you are doing nothing more than voting for business as usual.

    Put me down as voting for either the Libertarian or Constitutional Party candidates.


    Actually, those are excellent polling numbers for Bush. The average is 7.7%. We have no date on the poll, but it was likely taken long before Bush made public noise about running, while the ex-first lady, ex-secretary of state, ex-senator has been stumping the country in the face of the nation, sometimes eclipsing Obama himself.

    A move of 5% is rather easy and front runners typically tumble that much as soon as the race begins anyway. There has not been a discussion nor open debate about either's merits one on one, and few even know about Jeb's record. He is NOT his brother.

    So I would say Jeb's people are seeing the same thing, know the old lady's weaknesses and have decided to spend a few hundred thousand to a few million to "test the waters".
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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  3. #73
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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    And yet a massive upgrade from today's circumstances.


    Lateral move, both parties are in cohoots with each other. Nothing but minor changes to appease the sheep
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #74
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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Jeb Bush is the strongest candidate the Republicans could run - he'll be the only adult in the room when the debates start and he gets out on the hustings and starts campaigning. Those who don't know him or his immediate family or his time as Governor in Florida are just fixated on his last name. That will change. He's a very confident, well spoken, even tempered and personable man and that will work to his benefit when the running starts.

    I understand he was out helping several of the candidates in the 2014 mid-terms and was well received and helped the candidates he appeared with and supported. That's also a good sign and very important when it comes to getting support in the primaries. People in state primaries remember when a national figure takes the time to support their guy and they return that favour.

    And as I've said before, Jeb Bush's immediate family, his Hispanic wife and mixed race children, are very much modern day America and will be seen as such. And don't forget, for all the complaining from the left, GW Bush was the only most recent Republican to crack the 40% mark in Hispanic voter support because of his Texas ties and Jeb's Florida ties will give him that same boost.

    Jeb Bush will be the next President of the United States.
    Your posting the same doesn't make a reality. Texas will vote for whoever is the Republican, so Texas is no example of anything. Both George W Bush and Jeb Bush came into office when both states otherwise were turning red. Texas had a particularly unusual dynamic when Bush ran because Texas was going red already and the Demo Ann Richards was seen as extremely pro-lesbian, which was particularly not acceptable in the Latino community.

    Jeb Bush won because of the massive growth boom of old people to Florida ("God's waiting room for old people"), a boom the Bushes didn't create, and he had the big $$ behind him. But any Republican would have won that year because of a massive wave of Republican-voting seniors moving into the state.

    If you were accurate, then every poll wouldn't be showing him resoundingly losing to Hillary Clinton, would they?

    There are dynamics you like to disregard. For example, Hillary being female is an untested factor in a general election. The Latino culture is not adverse to women in leadership roles. There could be negatives to it in the African-American community. There could be huge advantages among white women.

    The negative of the Bush name is massive, something you believe you can just jump past for the general election. Clinton is a positive last name. Bush is a negative last name. You also just jump past Jeb Bush on immigration policy and Common Core support in the Republican primary.

    It is unknown how Jeb Bush would weather a total presidential campaign. Inner circles say he has a temper. Dangerous trait for a campaign. He has little education. He has been carried most his life by his money and connections. For example, he came into office on an appointment, then quit the job before seeking re-election.

    Presidential campaigns are brutal. The Bush political machinery can certainly handle the mechanics of it. It is unknown if Jeb Bush can handle the pressure. I suspect in the end the media will look at Jeb Bush's lack of education and decide he's just not smart enough, and then selectively pick out gaffs to try to put him into a Palin-the-idiot role.

    Of course, much is speculation as campaigns are dynamic. Jeb Bush is an unknown even to himself in that regards. It is known exactly the campaign Romney would run.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-17-14 at 02:10 PM.

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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    I'd like to nominate Sherrod Brown of Ohio.

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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Without exception, every poll shows Clinton trouncing Jeb Bush. Polls show Clinton beating about any Republican in nearly every poll.

    Yet the strongest showing of any polling for any Republican against Clinton the strongest (meaning losing by the least) is Romney. Romney also is the only Republican ever winning any poll against Clinton, such as in Iowa:
    Iowa Poll: Romney leads Clinton in 2016 matchup

    Historically, American voters like the comeback kid. They tend to keep the votes they had, so the question is can they pick up more? Having weathered every possible attack in the prior election, the same attacks are boring and worn out, so the candidate the is fairly immune to them the next time.

    And many polls show people wish they had voted for Romney last time, a big plus.

  7. #77
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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    He has little education. .
    What do you mean "little education". He has his college degree.

  8. #78
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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Your posting the same doesn't make a reality. Texas will vote for whoever is the Republican, so Texas is no example of anything. Both George W Bush and Jeb Bush came into office when both states otherwise were turning red. Texas had a particularly unusual dynamic when Bush ran because Texas was going red already and the Demo Ann Richards was seen as extremely pro-lesbian, which was particularly not acceptable in the Latino community.

    Jeb Bush won because of the massive growth boom of old people to Florida ("God's waiting room for old people"), a boom the Bushes didn't create, and he had the big $$ behind him. But any Republican would have won that year because of a massive wave of Republican-voting seniors moving into the state.

    If you were accurate, then every poll wouldn't be showing him resoundingly losing to Hillary Clinton, would they?

    There are dynamics you like to disregard. For example, Hillary being female is an untested factor in a general election. The Latino culture is not adverse to women in leadership roles. There could be negatives to it in the African-American community. There could be huge advantages among white women.

    The negative of the Bush name is massive, something you believe you can just jump past for the general election. Clinton is a positive last name. Bush is a negative last name. You also just jump past Jeb Bush on immigration policy and Common Core support in the Republican primary.

    It is unknown how Jeb Bush would weather a total presidential campaign. Inner circles say he has a temper. Dangerous trait for a campaign. He has little education. He has been carried most his life by his money and connections. For example, he came into office on an appointment, then quit the job before seeking re-election.

    Presidential campaigns are brutal. The Bush political machinery can certainly handle the mechanics of it. It is unknown if Jeb Bush can handle the pressure. I suspect in the end the media will look at Jeb Bush's lack of education and decide he's just not smart enough, and then selectively pick out gaffs to try to put him into a Palin-the-idiot role.

    Of course, much is speculation as campaigns are dynamic. Jeb Bush is an unknown even to himself in that regards. It is known exactly the campaign Romney would run.
    Just a couple of points:

    1. Current match up polls are totally irrelevant at this point because as I said before Jeb Bush is not widely known nationally while Hillary Clinton is. Jeb Bush suffers more negatives than positives from his last name, but that will change as voters get to see him in action.

    2. You claim Jeb has a temper - I say he has an even temperament, at least in public. It is well known that Hillary gets very unattractive whenever pressed and has an uncontrollable, nasty temper, that many have seen. Hillary has a definite ceiling whereas Jeb has lots of upside and room to grow.

    3. Hispanics didn't vote for Bush II just in Texas - they gave in 40% plus from lots of states. Jeb Bush will also benefit from that and once his family dynamic is better known, he'll benefit even more.

    4. As for African Americans, they fully abandoned Hillary in 2008 and Bill and Hillary both have made negative comments about Obama both in the 2008 primaries and while Obama has been President, particularly after Hillary left the State Department. I don't think for a minute that African Americans are going to support Hillary in anywhere close to the numbers that Obama got and without those massive numbers, she can't win. She has none of the upside, fresh face, hope and changy stuff that Obama spewed to such affect. And I don't believe for a minute that Obama will actively campaign for her. Wouldn't surprise me if he tried to pull a GWB and stay out of the race entirely in 2016.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  9. #79
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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Actually, those are excellent polling numbers for Bush. The average is 7.7%. We have no date on the poll, but it was likely taken long before Bush made public noise about running, while the ex-first lady, ex-secretary of state, ex-senator has been stumping the country in the face of the nation, sometimes eclipsing Obama himself.

    A move of 5% is rather easy and front runners typically tumble that much as soon as the race begins anyway. There has not been a discussion nor open debate about either's merits one on one, and few even know about Jeb's record. He is NOT his brother.

    So I would say Jeb's people are seeing the same thing, know the old lady's weaknesses and have decided to spend a few hundred thousand to a few million to "test the waters".
    I think so too. But until the pollsters switch to more state by state polls instead of just one national poll, we really do not know where he stands when it comes to the electoral college math. The popular vote means nothing, it is the electoral math that counts.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Jeb or Hillary for president in 2016?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I think so too. But until the pollsters switch to more state by state polls instead of just one national poll, we really do not know where he stands when it comes to the electoral college math. The popular vote means nothing, it is the electoral math that counts.
    We're two years away from any meaningful numbers. We don't even know whether either will, indeed run. So, in the end what we're dealing with is political masturbation.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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