View Poll Results: Does the U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

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Thread: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

  1. #71
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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Actually, the constitution gives equal weight to itself and treaties.

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land

    But that assumes the treaties made do not conflict with the constitution or laws when made. Once they are made though, they carry equal weight.
    Yes I agree and your assumption is what makes treaties in practice inferior to the Constitution.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Yes I agree and your assumption is what makes treaties in practice inferior to the Constitution.
    The exists in both states at the same time. They are as supreme as the constitution, but at the same time have the possibility of being void.

  3. #73
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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    While I think torture is completely unacceptable, one thing we have to realize is the Constitution is pretty vague in a lot of areas, leaving it open to interpretation. It never defines what constitutes "cruel and unusual". If torture became the norm, it certainly wouldn't be unusual and cruel is entirely subjective. Lots of liberals think the very existence of prisons at all is cruel. Therefore you are going to get people whose interpretation of the terms will be all over the board.
    Cruel and Unusual Punishment. I think punishment is the key word. If someone were to be killed as punishment for stealing a candy bar, that would be cruel and unusual. If someone were to be killed as punishment for needlessdly slaughtering hundreds of innocent children while laughing about it, I wouldn't consider that to be cruel or unusual punishment.

    If torture is punishment for not providing information, I would think that the cruelness and unusualness of the punishment would depend heavily on the nature of the information withheld. Looking back through human history, torture is not that unusual in many of these situations. If it has to be both cruel and unusual, then I can see an argument that torture is constitutional in some settings.

    That said, the thought makes me uneasy.

  4. #74
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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The exists in both states at the same time. They are as supreme as the constitution, but at the same time have the possibility of being void.
    Fair enough. We're probably splitting hairs as it is.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Yes

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    I think it very clearly does.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Yes

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    The constitution doesn't address torture. The Geneva Convention and a couple other agreements that the US is a signatory to prohibit torture of soldiers in time of war. There is no uniform standard protecting combatants who don't represent a nation state. The reason for this is that an agreement is reached between nations who are signatories, not loosely defined groups bound by an ideology and not represented by a government. That's why Feinstine and McCain speak in terms of American values when addressing the nonsense that the Senate Democrats authored. There is no defining law protecting enemy combatant terrorists unless they are officially charged in our criminal justice system. If they are charged with a crime, they are protected.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    All of the SCOTUS judges interpret it.

    That's part of their job, eh?

  8. #78
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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    My experience has been that a lot of people talk a good game. I don't doubt there's alot of anger out there, I just doubt that there are lot of people who could stomach personally torturing someone else.
    Never underestimate humans' capacity for doing evil. It lurks within every single one of us.
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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Yes

    No

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    I say that it does, Of course it all depends on how you define torture.

  10. #80
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    Re: Does The U.S. Constitution prohibit torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Thanks.
    Isn't it amazing what we humans do to each other
    ?


    I'm not amazed, but I do find some things disgusting.

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