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What do you think the future of the USA will be like ?

What do you think the future of the USA will be like ?


  • Total voters
    47
That is until we as a nation can no longer sustain the debt we are piling up. Oh sure the government could print 20 trillion dollar notes and pay it off.

Why would we ever have a need to pay it off? It's not like our government is going to retire when it reaches a certain age.

But what would the dollar be worth then? How many wheel barrels of dollar bills would it take to buy a loaf of bread and a dozen eggs?

It doesn't particularly matter, especially now when we don't actually have to physically carry in our dollars bills when we go to the store.

We could have a 100 to one dollar split (like a stock split) today, and it wouldn't make any difference. Suddenly our paychecks would be 100 times larger, and our bank accounts would be 100 times larger, and everything at Walmart would cost 100 times more.
 
I understand the words in your explanation, and I appreciate that, but somehow I can't imagine our currency collapsing in value.

Our currency is backed by the basket of goods and services that can be purchased with it. It's the fact that we can use it to purchase goods and services that gives it value, nothing more. As long as our (like real life people) debts and bills have to be repaid in US dollars, then the dollar will always have value, regardless of any high faluten pie in the sky big time fancy international finance stuff.

As long as the electric company pays it's employees in US dollars, it will have a need to acquire US dollars, and thus it will be willing to accept dollars in trade for it's electricity. Same with the grocery store, or Walmart, or the barber shop.

Even the fact that our taxes have to be paid in US dollars helps to support the value of the dollar. If I have taxes to pay, then I have a need to acquire US dollars. As long as I have a need to acquire dollars, then I will accept dollars in trade for my goods and services (or for my labor, if I was someone who had a regular job).

The only way I can imagine the US dollar becoming valueless is if we no longer had a need to pay bills or to purchase products. Like maybe if we stopped producing anything. But I don't see any reason that would happen, shy of some sort of apocalyptical disaster.

Or if another country or another entity buys up our debt with a different more valuable currency. All that has to happen for that to occur is the federal reserve says they will no longer print money until the debt owed to them is payed off. Then let's say a global bric fund pays the debt off for the federal government and monopolizes America. I do think his will happen after a fabricated financial meltdown because the private owners of the federal reserve are the same private owners of the IMF.

All that needs to happen to spark a financial meltdown of this effect is for the interest rates to maintain a zero then solely raise them up to around six percent and then drop the rate down back to zero. Well, if you have noticed the interest rates have been at a zero for quite some time now. When they start raising the rates it's time to start panicking. The best thing that can occur because of that is a recession like 2008, the worst hint would be what I have suggested, and that's a global currency buying off our debt
 
I respectfully disagree that the free market can solve every problem. The free market isn't landing on comets. The free market is studying how a rat licking it's young affects it later. There are no immediate financial gains in those sectors - and quite frankly, I don't want the free market dabbling in areas that could be ethically corrupted.

The free market serves a great purpose in what it does well, and public welfare, goods, and services are not what it does well.

I agree, however I see government, and government spending (investment) as being part of a healthy free market. Countries without substantial government provided infrastructure don't have strong economies.
 
Or if another country or another entity buys up our debt with a different more valuable currency. All that has to happen for that to occur is the federal reserve says they will no longer print money until the debt owed to them is payed off...

I don't believe that would be within the fed's mandate, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Anyhow, I don't see how a country could purchase US treasuries in any currency other than the US dollars.
 
I respectfully disagree that the free market can solve every problem. The free market isn't landing on comets. The free market is studying how a rat licking it's young affects it later. There are no immediate financial gains in those sectors - and quite frankly, I don't want the free market dabbling in areas that could be ethically corrupted.

The free market serves a great purpose in what it does well, and public welfare, goods, and services are not what it does well.

Well the free market is actually a study of the most efficient way to economize a market, such as entrepreneurs decide which product is necessary for profit and which product isn't. which business tactics could we employ to maximize profit and minimize waste right? So basically with that being understood you have to understand that there is a market for things like space travel and other things and with a free market society you could in all reality figure the most rational way to travel to a comet or to use space for traveling considering profit creates competition

The problem with most people is we have grown to hate the free market and suspend it's capabilities when in reality we should hate the business men who have corrupted the politicians on capital hill. You're right, companies are horrible in the way they treat people, but they would be very inefficient in treating these people a certain way if the government never got involved in the first place. The only role of a government in a market is to protect property rights, so basically the government can't favor anyone and the government can't implement policies to steer the economy in a certain way. Because once the company becomes favored by policy makers. Then the policies start favoring the company and effectively the company gets away with the suspension of human rights and the destruction of the overall welfare of the lower to middle class. However, with theories of competition, these companies would not be able to employ such horrendous tactics for the simple response of there is always an entrepreneur for a superior employer or a superior business to work at.
 
Exactly, but there are those who say it doesn't matter how much debt we run up. We can just print the money to cover it. Then inflation hits, soon a guy will have to make a 1,000 dollars an hour just to keep pace with the printing of money and the rise in cost of goods. Buy Chinese Yuan is probably a good idea.

We paid over $220 billion in interest on the debt in 2012. I can't find later numbers, but it has been predicted that we will be paying nearly $ one trillion in interest by 2020, and that's with the Feds keeping rates very low for a long time. I don't believe we actually borrow money from China, per se, but they buy our Treasury offerings at auction, and we have to pay them yearly interest. I believe that I read recently that they own over $1.15 trillion in bonds, with Japan owning nearly $1.13. trillion. Together they own about 47% of foreign debt that we pay them interest on. What's going to happen to people in the US who don't have much now and have to depend on the government to survive?

I went to my first Christmas party this afternoon, and the latest budget proposal was the main topic of conversation. It was nice to be among well-dressed intelligent business people, and just listening to their opinions, but it was scary, too. "We owe too much, yet the spending continues, so WTH is the matter with DC " seemed to be the consensus. I almost feel sorry, for their sakes, that the Repubs are taking over in a few weeks, but maybe some things can be handled, like bringing up the bills from the House for a vote that Reid has shoved in his desk over the past few years. What a messy bottleneck he created by not doing his job by putting Party over the people they are supposed to represent! :2mad:
 
I don't believe that would be within the fed's mandate, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Anyhow, I don't see how a country could purchase US treasuries in any currency other than the US dollars.

Because the u.s. Dollar is not a sustained currency, it's a federal reserve note, such as a promise note to pay of an allocates amount of debt. Each dollar you own is a dollar we owe the federal reserve. It's up to the private owners to decide what is profitable in allocating for the actual paying off that debt. Let's say that the federal reserve act didn't monopolize actual currency, and we had state currencies ok? Then you did business with a cable company, and you went to pay your bill. Let's say you live in California, and you want to pay the company in texans currency. If the company says ok we accept then you've just payed a debt in a different currency. Now let's take that concept and realize the u.s. Dollar is not the world currency it's the biggest backing of the reserves in the IMF ok? So then a country like china or even a private businessman that has x amount of Brics says ok we want to buy off the American debt with x amount of Brics, then the reserve says ok we agree.

That's all it really is, now think of this. The people who own the federal reserve are the people who are the same people printing and valuing the brics. So when they tell themselves we will buy up all he debt of the American economy to themselves and they agree what initially happens is not only have they monopolized the currency they now successfully bought the entire country for literally nothing
 
IDFK

Seriously, all of these are at least possible, yet even the worst of them will be followed by a rebuilding process, ending with something that may or may not be the united states.....in which case we may have the opposite occur, if only due to the low bar then applicable.

Basically I object to the word "end", which most of those options imply.
 
Why would we ever have a need to pay it off? It's not like our government is going to retire when it reaches a certain age.



It doesn't particularly matter, especially now when we don't actually have to physically carry in our dollars bills when we go to the store.

We could have a 100 to one dollar split (like a stock split) today, and it wouldn't make any difference. Suddenly our paychecks would be 100 times larger, and our bank accounts would be 100 times larger, and everything at Walmart would cost 100 times more.

I think that is rather a simplistic view. It also assumes that the people and other countries will continue to have faith in the fiscal policies and monetary solvency of this country. There is nothing backing up the dollar except the government these days. Not like it was when I was young, when we were on the gold standard.

Good old Uncle Sam says the dollar is good and as long as everyone believes that it is. But all it takes is a country or two to hedge their bets and the spiral begins.
 
We paid over $220 billion in interest on the debt in 2012. I can't find later numbers, but it has been predicted that we will be paying nearly $ one trillion in interest by 2020, and that's with the Feds keeping rates very low for a long time. I don't believe we actually borrow money from China, per se, but they buy our Treasury offerings at auction, and we have to pay them yearly interest. I believe that I read recently that they own over $1.15 trillion in bonds, with Japan owning nearly $1.13. trillion. Together they own about 47% of foreign debt that we pay them interest on. What's going to happen to people in the US who don't have much now and have to depend on the government to survive?

I went to my first Christmas party this afternoon, and the latest budget proposal was the main topic of conversation. It was nice to be among well-dressed intelligent business people, and just listening to their opinions, but it was scary, too. "We owe too much, yet the spending continues, so WTH is the matter with DC " seemed to be the consensus. I almost feel sorry, for their sakes, that the Repubs are taking over in a few weeks, but maybe some things can be handled, like bringing up the bills from the House for a vote that Reid has shoved in his desk over the past few years. What a messy bottleneck he created by not doing his job by putting Party over the people they are supposed to represent! :2mad:

Here you go Pol, interest on the debt since 2000:

2014 $430,812,121,372.05
2013 $415,688,781,248.40
2012 $359,796,008,919.49
2011 $454,393,280,417.03
2010 $413,954,825,362.17
2009 $383,071,060,815.42
2008 $451,154,049,950.63
2007 $429,977,998,108.20
2006 $405,872,109,315.83
2005 $352,350,252,507.90
2004 $321,566,323,971.29
2003 $318,148,529,151.51
2002 $332,536,958,599.42
2001 $359,507,635,242.41
2000 $361,997,734,302.30

We are now approaching a half trillion dollars in interest alone that must be paid. This bill is at interest rates of 1-2 percent. Now if interest rates reach their normal of 6% triple or quadruple the amount shown. Yet, so many people just toss this fact off into the wind.
 
What a joke listening to people blame Reid for not bringing up the garbage from the House.
As if that TEArabble could put together a jobs bill that would do any good.

You guys still haven't accepted the message that the recession and ensuing 10.4% unemployment decreased revenue for the government, causing the deficits.
And this crimenibus just passed by the House is deficits on steroids, giving TARP back to Wall Street ensuring another 2008.

Let's see how many of these great bills get brought up by McConnell, whose only mission is to keep the Senate in the 2016 election. :lamo

Republican Leaders Boehner and McConnell have the toughest jobs in DC, dealing with their caucuses and depending on Reid, Pelosi and Obama.
Since DEMs are supposed to be above obstruction compared to the GOP as I hear on DP, I'll wish Boehner/McConnell the best for America .
 
...
That's all it really is, now think of this. The people who own the federal reserve are the people who are the same people printing and valuing the brics. ...

Sure, the American Public.
 
...There is nothing backing up the dollar except the government these days. ...

The dollar is backed by everything that can be purchased with it.

The dollar was never truly backed by gold, not at any time in the existence of this country. And when we were young, and on the "gold standard", US citizens weren't even allowed to exchange the dollar for gold. It was illegal for citizens to own gold bullion. If you can't exchange your dollars for what backs it, then it's not really backed by that product.

I can however use my dollars at Walmart, or at McDonalds, or at the car dealer. So my dollars are backed by all the goods and services which can be purchased then them, as they always have been.
 



I believe that the USA will evolve into a more tolerant, inclusive society and that the GOP will shrink to a small, regional party when massive demographic change hits it like a tidal wave. I'm 71-years old and I expect to live long enough to see this happen.

It's not right around the corner, but it's going to happen.

No one can stop time and/or change.

The clock is ticking. :roll:
 
Here you go Pol, interest on the debt since 2000:

2014 $430,812,121,372.05
2013 $415,688,781,248.40
2012 $359,796,008,919.49
2011 $454,393,280,417.03
2010 $413,954,825,362.17
2009 $383,071,060,815.42
2008 $451,154,049,950.63
2007 $429,977,998,108.20
2006 $405,872,109,315.83
2005 $352,350,252,507.90
2004 $321,566,323,971.29
2003 $318,148,529,151.51
2002 $332,536,958,599.42
2001 $359,507,635,242.41
2000 $361,997,734,302.30

We are now approaching a half trillion dollars in interest alone that must be paid. This bill is at interest rates of 1-2 percent. Now if interest rates reach their normal of 6% triple or quadruple the amount shown. Yet, so many people just toss this fact off into the wind.

There has been interest due every year of the existence of this country except for one. It's a system that has worked out fairly well for the past 238 years, I'm fairly confident that it will continue to work out for at least another 238 years.
 
I really think that our current values of endlessly expanding our population and destroying nature are going to come back and bite us in the ass. This is a finite world people, so perhaps we should consider setting limits?



We heard this same BS many years ago and it hasn't happened yet.
 
Compare crime rates, the necessity for a health care act, the enormous hospital bills, the amount of laws introduced into business and many many many other things that have all been a cause of dollar inflation.

A few things inflation and devaluing the currency 1) it creates a much harder task for entrepreneurs to effectively review the currency in markets to decide if the price of he market is actually due to rightful business tactics or if the increase in he market is due to inflation. This means, the producers will create far more errors in the calculations of the economy

2) it forces businesses and consumers to spend time and resources in business security, this is wasteful spending

3) it creates governmental involvement into the economy through policies, in other words it creates added crony capitalism

4) it robs peoples of their savings

5) the entire idea of inflation is an illusion based on waste

It is not a reflection of " as long as we pay enough money there will be no generic bad purpose of dollar devaluation" it's " we've started purposely devaluing the dollar
how long can we last devaluing the dollar to combat the dollar devaluation until our economy collapses?"



The USA has been in business for 238-years and it won't be shutting down anytime soon.

Wait and see. :roll:
 
There has been interest due every year of the existence of this country except for one. It's a system that has worked out fairly well for the past 238 years, I'm fairly confident that it will continue to work out for at least another 238 years.

You're confusing interest on war debt compared to interest on debt that we are unable to pay off by design. The whol reserve banking system was literally designed to keep us as indentured servants towards an enormous debt
 
The USA has been in business for 238-years and it won't be shutting down anytime soon.

Wait and see. :roll:

Well I'm glad you've added such a rational economic response to what I was saying the negative effects of inflation is, then you added the rolling of the eyes like I have no idea what I'm talking about. Please explain to me the best way you can why he american economy will not collapse
 
If you can remember nickle cokes, you also remember when $1 an hour was considered to be "good money".
Is our standard of living lower today than it was way back then?



Lots of people in the USA are living pretty good.
 
Standard of living has increased because of the technology and understanding of our environment has advanced, as well as transportation and other things. This is not because we had inflation this is because of our own personal advancements

In fact, the restrictions of the growth of business and competition even in regards to calculating markets and amongst other problems inflation has created can actually be attributed to disrupting the proper competition of markets and would limit the actual growth of technology because people don't search for alternative business methods due to a lack of understanding the calculations of economy.
So the technology that could of been created to increase productivity has been slowed down due to the faulty calculations.



Productivity in the USA continues to increase.
 
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