Is Elizabeth Warren part Native American?

Cardinal said:

Jesus. What's keeping this thread going?

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Personal angst/pride, I think.

year2late said:

Too bad we can't expect more.

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On the contrary, that's the essence of politics. Opinions and beliefs are political facts.

Jack Hays said:

And altering someone else's post...

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I shortened your post to get rid of the nonsensical fat. That you're still trying to stick around desperate to avoid the fact that you couldn't prove your claims is telling though. Jack, why do you this to yourself when you lose an argument? You did it when you couldn't clearly show why the hopes of unknown sources were relevant to the Iraq withdrawal agreement, you're doing it now. Is this an automatic reaction to not being able to argue your points?

year2late said:

Do YOU consider him black or white?

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My answer is "no." I don't consider his race at all.

As for Elizabeth Warren, if she believed she was Native American enough to put that on forms in liberal settings, then she lied when she put she is white on forms in conservative settings. That's easy enough to understand. In short, to her own mind she tactically lied playing race to her advantage.

But it is clear that Democrats are fine with her lying and are tripping over themselves trying to rationalize it.

Hatuey said:

I shortened your post to get rid of the nonsensical fat. That you're still trying to stick around desperate to avoid the fact that you couldn't prove your claims is telling though. Jack, why do you this to yourself when you lose an argument? You did it when you couldn't clearly show why the hopes of unknown sources were relevant to the Iraq withdrawal agreement, you're doing it now. Is this an automatic reaction to not being able to argue your points?

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You lost on Iraq and you lost here.

Cardinal said:

Jesus. What's keeping this thread going?

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Elizabeth Warren has sometimes filled out forms claiming she is Native American. Other times claiming she is white. Which she filled out appears based upon which served her personally.

Does that constitute lying? Or being clever?

Jack Hays said:

You lost on Iraq and you lost here.

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Still making it up as you go? Lol. You couldn't prove your assertions, Jack. How does it feel?

Hatuey said:

Still making it up as you go? Lol. You couldn't prove your assertions, Jack. How does it feel?

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There was never anything to prove in this thread.

joko104 said:

Elizabeth Warren has sometimes filled out forms claiming she is Native American. Other times claiming she is white. Which she filled out appears based upon which served her personally.

Does that constitute lying? Or being clever?

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I asked this earlier. What was the last time (year or decade) that she checked the Native American box?

pbrauer said:

What evidence do you or for that matter Scott Brown have that she lied?

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In my opinion the fact she has no real cultural connection makes it a lie regardless of her ancestry, I can truthfully state I'm 1/16 Native American and point you to a named relative of mine and which tribe half her ancestry was from (Lakota) but it would be dishonest for me to claim that for AA employment as I have no cultural connection and have suffered no discrimination as a result

joko104 said:

Elizabeth Warren has sometimes filled out forms claiming she is Native American. Other times claiming she is white. Which she filled out appears based upon which served her personally.

Does that constitute lying? Or being clever?

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The title of the thread is "Elizabeth Warren part Native American?"

EMNofSeattle said:

In my opinion the fact she has no real cultural connection makes it a lie regardless of her ancestry, I can truthfully state I'm 1/16 Native American and point you to a named relative of mine and which tribe half her ancestry was from (Lakota) but it would be dishonest for me to claim that for AA employment as I have no cultural connection and have suffered no discrimination as a result

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Thanks.

pbrauer said:

Thanks.

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You're welcome!

EMNofSeattle said:

In my opinion the fact she has no real cultural connection makes it a lie regardless of her ancestry, I can truthfully state I'm 1/16 Native American and point you to a named relative of mine and which tribe half her ancestry was from (Lakota) but it would be dishonest for me to claim that for AA employment as I have no cultural connection and have suffered no discrimination as a result

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Did Warren receive the benefits of Affirmative Action?

year2late said:

Did Warren receive the benefits of Affirmative Action?

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Hard to tell if she directly receive the benefits. However the University she taught at listed her as a minority faculty as a result however she was certainly qualified enough to be hired anyway.

joko104 said:

No, the definition of Native American is not just ancestry, but also tribal membership for many tribes. A 100% white or 100% black person can be a "Native American" by their ancestry or in the present in many tribes. Unlike most "races," many tribes did not see people in racial terms, but in community or social terms. There is a distinction between what the government definitions of who is a Native American - and what various tribes say who is and isn't one of them. In addition, many Native Americans do not see themselves all as generically the same, while the government and most people do.

She is not Native American by either measure.

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Oral family tradition counts IMO. I have met very few people in Oklahoma who don't have Native roots even if they are not tribally affiliated.

year2late said:

I asked this earlier. What was the last time (year or decade) that she checked the Native American box?

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She put it in a recent book:

Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) repeats her false claims of Native American ancestry in her new book, A Fighting Chance, which is scheduled for release next Tuesday.
"As a kid, I had learned about my Native American background the same way every kid learns about who they are: from family," Senator Warren writes in an excerpt published Wednesday in the Boston Globe.
Senator Warren then repeats a line she used often in her 2012 Senate campaign, memorialized in a September 2012 television commercial, writing "I never questioned my family’s stories or asked my parents for proof or documentation. What kid would?"
"Knowing who you are is one thing, and proving who you are is another," Warren writes.
In 2012 Breitbart News exhaustively documented the facts surrounding Senator Warren's claims of Native American ancestry and demonstrated that no credible evidence exists to support those claims. But lack of genealogical evidence has never stopped Senator Warren from boldly asserting as fact something which is flatly not true.
In May 2012, Warren's campaign offered two pieces of evidence, both quickly debunked, in a futile effort to prove her claim.
One piece of debunked evidence was her inclusion of Warren "family recipes" in the Pow Wow Chow Cookbook, published by the Five Civilized Tribes Museum of Muskogee, Oklahama in 1984. The book's publishers claimed all the recipes in the book were contributed by descendants of the five civilized tribes--Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek and Seminole.
Each recipe contributor identified the tribe from which he or she claimed to descend. In Senator Warren's case, she claimed to descend from the Cherokee tribe in each of her published recipes.
Two of the recipes contributed by Senator Warren as evidence of her Cherokee heritage and published in the Pow Wow Chow Cookbook, "Cold Omelets with Crab Meat" and "Crab with Tomato Mayonnaise Dressing" were copied from a 1979 New York Times News Service article by Pierre Franey.
A second piece of debunked evidence, a purported 1894 marriage license application which was said to list her great-great-grandmother as a Native American, was demonstrated not to exist.
Breitbart News and a noted Cherokee genealogist have documented there is no evidence to support Senator Warren's claim of Cherokee ancestry. There is evidence, however, that shows Senator Warren's great-great-great grandfather, Jonathan Crawford, was a member of the Tennessee militia in the 1830s who rounded up the local Cherokee as the first step in their forced "Trail of Tears" journey to Oklahoma.
The Globe reported Wednesday that Senator Warren writes in her book "I never asked for special treatment when I applied to college, to law school, or for jobs."
But, as Breitbart News reported in May 2012, Senator Warren has "[f]or twenty-five years since 1986, and without a shred of credible evidence . . . claimed to have Native American ancestry. She's made this claim, apparently, to three separate employers—the University of Texas Law School, the University of Pennsylvania Law School, and Harvard Law School. None apparently asked her for proof, nor did she offer any."
The Globe, which embarrassed itself so thoroughly with its inaccurate coverage of Senator Warren's ancestry claims in 2012 it had to issue a public correction to an article which falsely asserted there was documentary "evidence" of the Senator's Native American heritage, reverted to form on Wednesday and repeated Senator Warren’s falsehood: "Warren also devotes several pages to the sensitive subject of her partial Native American heritage," the paper wrote, without providing any new evidence for ancestry, partial or not.
Elizabeth Warren Repeats Her False Claims of Native American Ancestry in New Book

Harvard then counter her as 2 minorities 1.) woman and 2.) native American - declaring she was Harvard's first Native American woman in such a position - forever denying this potential to real Native Americans.

Insult to injury, the only ancestry found in relation to Native Americans was a relative who was with the Army on the Cherokee Trail of Tears (death march) - the most recognized symbol of denial of humanity to Native Americans - since this done it total defiance of the United States Supreme Court.

In terms of Cherokees, her ancestor was the worse of the worst against Cherokees. It is not just a lie and scam, but like a sick prank of hers.

joko104 said:

She put it in a recent book:

enator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) repeats her false claims of Native American ancestry in her new book, A Fighting Chance, which is scheduled for release next Tuesday.
"As a kid, I had learned about my Native American background the same way every kid learns about who they are: from family," Senator Warren writes in an excerpt published Wednesday in the Boston Globe.
Senator Warren then repeats a line she used often in her 2012 Senate campaign, memorialized in a September 2012 television commercial, writing "I never questioned my family’s stories or asked my parents for proof or documentation. What kid would?"
"Knowing who you are is one thing, and proving who you are is another," Warren writes.
In 2012 Breitbart News exhaustively documented the facts surrounding Senator Warren's claims of Native American ancestry and demonstrated that no credible evidence exists to support those claims. But lack of genealogical evidence has never stopped Senator Warren from boldly asserting as fact something which is flatly not true.
In May 2012, Warren's campaign offered two pieces of evidence, both quickly debunked, in a futile effort to prove her claim.
One piece of debunked evidence was her inclusion of Warren "family recipes" in the Pow Wow Chow Cookbook, published by the Five Civilized Tribes Museum of Muskogee, Oklahama in 1984. The book's publishers claimed all the recipes in the book were contributed by descendants of the five civilized tribes--Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek and Seminole.
Each recipe contributor identified the tribe from which he or she claimed to descend. In Senator Warren's case, she claimed to descend from the Cherokee tribe in each of her published recipes.
Two of the recipes contributed by Senator Warren as evidence of her Cherokee heritage and published in the Pow Wow Chow Cookbook, "Cold Omelets with Crab Meat" and "Crab with Tomato Mayonnaise Dressing" were copied from a 1979 New York Times News Service article by Pierre Franey.
A second piece of debunked evidence, a purported 1894 marriage license application which was said to list her great-great-grandmother as a Native American, was demonstrated not to exist.
Breitbart News and a noted Cherokee genealogist have documented there is no evidence to support Senator Warren's claim of Cherokee ancestry. There is evidence, however, that shows Senator Warren's great-great-great grandfather, Jonathan Crawford, was a member of the Tennessee militia in the 1830s who rounded up the local Cherokee as the first step in their forced "Trail of Tears" journey to Oklahoma.
The Globe reported Wednesday that Senator Warren writes in her book "I never asked for special treatment when I applied to college, to law school, or for jobs."
But, as Breitbart News reported in May 2012, Senator Warren has "[f]or twenty-five years since 1986, and without a shred of credible evidence . . . claimed to have Native American ancestry. She's made this claim, apparently, to three separate employers—the University of Texas Law School, the University of Pennsylvania Law School, and Harvard Law School. None apparently asked her for proof, nor did she offer any."
The Globe, which embarrassed itself so thoroughly with its inaccurate coverage of Senator Warren's ancestry claims in 2012 it had to issue a public correction to an article which falsely asserted there was documentary "evidence" of the Senator's Native American heritage, reverted to form on Wednesday and repeated Senator Warren’s falsehood: "Warren also devotes several pages to the sensitive subject of her partial Native American heritage," the paper wrote, without providing any new evidence for ancestry, partial or not.
Elizabeth Warren Repeats Her False Claims of Native American Ancestry in New Book

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So 1984?

year2late said:

So 1984?

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As for a form, 1984.. In writing, 2012. And it has been shown she lied as to proof she claimed.

Further, as a LAWYER, she understands - or could easily check - that her claim of 1/32nd Cherokee ancestry didn't cut it, including with Cherokees which required at least 1/16th. So even by her own claim, to claim minority status to Harvard was a lie. A fraud.

Of course, potentially a person could claim linkage to Cherokee tradition by DOING ANYTHING indicating ANYTHING the person is doing related to being Cherokee, other than using it for professional personal profit. She hasn't.

"Hire me! Vote for me! I am of military tradition. My grandfather won the Congressional Medal of Honor in WW1. I'm PROUD of the American military tradition of my family."

Response, "We looked, and your grandfather wasn't in the military. However, you great uncle was. He was a German soldier who got a medal for killing Americans."

To which Warren says, "well, I thought my grandfather had won the Congressional Medal of Honor, so I'm just going to keep using that to get ahead for the next 30 years anyway."

That's Elizabeth Warren.

joko104 said:

As for a form, 1984.. In writing, 2012. And it has been shown she lied as to proof she claimed.

Further, as a LAWYER, she understands - or could easily check - that her claim of 1/32nd Cherokee ancestry didn't cut it, including with Cherokees which required at least 1/16th. So even by her own claim, to claim minority status to Harvard was a lie. A fraud.

Of course, potentially a person could claim linkage to Cherokee tradition by DOING ANYTHING indicating ANYTHING the person is doing related to being Cherokee, other than using it for professional personal profit. She hasn't.

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She seems to be responding to her perception and point of view of the brouhaha. Not declaring something for the sake of employment. She is highly employable and electable without the connection.

So we are back to 30 year old check marks based on family lore.

joko104 said:

"Hire me! Vote for me! I am of military tradition. My grandfather won the Congressional Medal of Honor in WW1. I'm PROUD of the American military tradition of my family."

Response, "We looked, and your grandfather wasn't in the military. However, you great uncle was. He was a German soldier who got a medal for killing Americans."

To which Warren says, "well, I thought my grandfather had won the Congressional Medal of Honor, so I'm just going to keep using that to get ahead for the next 30 years anyway."

That's Elizabeth Warren.

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WTH are you talking about?

year2late said:

She seems to be responding to her perception and point of view of the brouhaha. Not declaring something for the sake of employment. She is highly employable and electable without the connection.

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That's well and true, but deception should be a big deAl. If you for example join the military, they will have you fill out a form to investigate you for a security clearance, everything must be answered truthfully, if you lie on this form, even if telling the truth would not have disqualified you, just the fact you why would be a basis not to grant a security clearance or possibly not to enlist you at all in the service. Same concept should apply here. I may be old school but I take integrity very seriously in public office. one of the biggest problems we have today, in my opinion, is a culture that frankly distrust the government in nearly everything. There seems to be a little trust in the system these days and I think it's directly related to the fact that we tolerate lying in public officials. Bill Clinton was otherwise a good president I don't really care that he was going around boffing h is intern. I have a problem with the lying under oath about it

Back to Warren, she was perfectly qualified for the job she applied for without the minority status, that doesn't really matter, because Warren probably perceived that she was advancing herself by listing herself as a Native American. Even if she didn't really benefit, she probably believes she did

Being employed by Harvard is HIGHLY competitive. Minority status, particularly then, was often the decisive difference. Telling Harvard she would be the first Native American woman on Harvard staff was not an irrelevancy. Nor was it not without harm. A woman of PROVEN Cherokee-killing and death march ancestry claiming - and therefore stealing a "first" Native American potential title from Harvard is no small thing. This was not innocent error. It was calculated.

year2late said:

WTH are you talking about?

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I am using your defense of her, your logic.