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Is Elizabeth Warren part Native American?

Is Elizabeth Warren part Native American?

  • Absolutely not -- part of her family denies it.

    Votes: 6 7.7%

  • Absolutely -- part of her family says it's true.

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • How the hell would I know?

    Votes: 21 26.9%

  • I don't see why this is so unbelievable.

    Votes: 6 7.7%

  • Who cares?

    Votes: 53 67.9%

  • No, seriously, this is the least important issue in the history of anything ever.

    Votes: 26 33.3%
  • Total voters
    78
tres borrachos said:
Whitening their names? So that people would think Mia (a nickname of Ludmya) was white?
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There are actually studies on this, I welcome you to read up on them:

How an ethnic-sounding name may affect the job hunt - The Globe and Mail

You may have a string of prestigious degrees and years of experience in Canada, but potential employers may never get that far into your résumé if your name sounds foreign, a new study has found.

An underlying reason appears to be subconscious discrimination, the researchers suggest.

“What we think is happening is recruiters have to go through piles of résumés very quickly. If they see an unfamiliar name, they may get an initial first reaction that they have concerns about whether the person has the social and language skills the job requires,” said Philip Oreopoulos, assistant professor of economics at the University of Toronto and co-author of the study.
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Why did it fly over your head that Jindal wanted an American name in America, not an Indian name in America? Like my neighbor's kid.
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It didn't. I specifically addressed that and said it didn't affect his integrity.

By the way, Sasha Obama's real name is Natasha. You think Obama wanted everyone to not think she was Russian when he bestowed her nickname on her?

And once again, the application of nicknames is as relevant to the Warren story as the color of my bedspread.
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These points really are too complex for you, aren't they? Obama giving his daughter a Russian name and shortening it by using another Russian nickname doesn't call into question his integrity either. That's the point. How people decide to address their racial heritage and what they identify as is not an indicator of their integrity by any means of the imagination. That's been the point from day one. That's why I cited Piyush, Ludmya, McCain, Warren and Obama. They're all examples of people addressing their heritage in different ways that A) are irrelevant to their politics and B) don't relate to their integrity.
 
Hatuey said:
There are actually studies on this, I welcome you to read up on them:

How an ethnic-sounding name may affect the job hunt - The Globe and Mail





It didn't. I specifically addressed that and said it didn't affect his integrity.



These points really are too complex for you, aren't they? Obama giving his daughter a Russian name and shortening it by using another Russian nickname doesn't call into question his integrity either.
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I'm sure when Bobby Jindal was 6 years old he was very concerned with a job hunt.

Anglicizing one's name as a child doesn't impact integrity.

Nobody said Obama's choice of name brings his integrity into question. The only one who thinks giving a child a nickname is an integrity issue, which is why I'm laughing at you.

So tell me, how white did Ludmya become after she got her nickname from her parents?

PS The name "Sasha" was originally a nickname of the name Alexander. It's a unisex name. Did Obama call his daughter Sasha because he wanted everyone to think she was a male, you know, for job hunting purposes?
 
Jack Hays said:
Most claims of Native American ancestry in the US are false. Claims based on family lore are especially dubious.
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Good stuff, doesn't stop many people from claiming it because they believe their family lore. :shrug: Again, your beliefs on what people should and shouldn't do about their racial politics are irrelevant. Warren believed it because her family told her so. She identified as NA because she believed she was and there really is no way to prove otherwise. Don't like it? That's your problem.
 
clownboy said:
No, when she is attesting that the info is correct, the onus is on her to make sure it's so. In this case, sooooo easy to check. Either she's on the rolls or she's not. The tools and knowledge for her to verify before she swore to it were there and easily used.
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Is she bringing it up now? Is she making an issue of it now?
The Globe obtained a portion of Warren's application to Rutgers, which asks if prospective students want to apply for admission under the school's Program for Minority Group Students. Warren answered "no."

For her employment documents at the University of Texas, Warren indicated that she was "white."

But Penn's 2005 Minority Equity Report identified her as the recipient of a 1994 faculty award, listing her name in bold to signify that she was a minority. The Herald has twice quoted Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, saying that the Democratic candidate's heritage didn't come up during the course of her hiring. "It simply played no role in the appointments process," he said. "It was not mentioned and I didn't mention it to the faculty."

The Herald later quoted Fried, a former U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan, saying, "I can state categorically that the subject of her Native American ancestry never once was mentioned."
Read more at snopes.com: Elizabeth Warren, Wealthy Native American
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If she is insisting on it now and is gaining from it now and there is question to the validity of the claim - go for it, ask for the test. A test that likely was not available when she was in school and in the beginning of her career. Asking now to clarify past remarks is just silly.
 
Hatuey said:
Good stuff, doesn't stop many people from claiming it because they believe their family lore. :shrug: Again, your beliefs on what people should and shouldn't do about their racial politics are irrelevant. Warren believed it because her family told her so. She identified as NA because she believed she was and there really is no way to prove otherwise. Don't like it? That's your problem.
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She may or may not have believed it, I really don't care. She benefited from it, and claimed she hadn't, and then couldn't substantiate the ancestry claim. I find this interesting mainly because the way to put it to rest is so simple and yet she didn't do it. If I were a wagering man I'd put down a lot that the Hillary team has this researched backward and forward.
 
tres borrachos said:
I'm sure when Bobby Jindal was 6 years old he was very concerned with a job hunt.
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I'm getting bored with you. You simply don't understand that this is part of a larger pattern of people changing their names to fit into the society they live in. Is that really too complex for you to understand? The point however is that it doesn't mean much in terms of their integrity. It just means they made decisions based on what they believed would advance them in the society they lived in. :shrug:

Anglicizing one's name as a child doesn't impact integrity.

Nobody said Obama's choice of name brings his integrity into question. The only one who thinks giving a child a nickname is an integrity issue, which is why I'm laughing at you.

So tell me, how white did Ludmya become after she got her nickname from her parents?

PS The name "Sasha" was originally a nickname of the name Alexander. It's a unisex name. Did Obama call his daughter Sasha because he wanted everyone to think she was a male, you know, for job hunting purposes?
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It's almost like you don't understand larger points at all. Last time I explain this before you get aggravated that you're being beaten in a debate and decide to go into your ad-hom tirades:

How Obama dealt with his ethnic origins, what he named his kids, how he distanced himself from his racial identity are irrelevant to his integrity as a person. That's the point here. These examples (Ludmya, Piyush, Warren, McCain and Obama) all have the same thing in common. That thing being how people have dealt with their racial identity. The decisions they have made are A) personal and B) irrelevant to their politics. As such, they do not call integrity into question at any point because the "true" reasons behind them are known only to them. Do you get this yet? Or no? If you don't, then please don't respond. A person sounds incredibly uneducated when they fail to understand a point for 4+ posts (i.e. apologist).
 
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Jack Hays said:
She may or may not have believed it, I really don't care. She benefited from it,
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Prove the university hired her because she claimed to be N.A. The university claims to have hired based on her abilities. Do you know better? Maybe she was hired because she was a woman? Anywho, I can wait for you to come up with the evidence of the reasons behind her hiring.
 
Hatuey said:
Prove the university hired her because she claimed to be N.A. The university claims to have hired based on her abilities. Do you know better? Maybe she was hired because she was a woman? Anywho, I can wait for you to come up with the evidence of the reasons behind her hiring.
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I have provided you with links comprised the detailed history and I'm not going to repeat all that here. The university's 2012 denial, offered in the middle of a political campaign, does not fit well with the contemporaneous documentary evidence.
 
Jack Hays said:
I have provided you with links comprised the detailed history and I'm not going to repeat all that here.
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And none show that the university hired because of her Native American heritage. Only that she presented herself as such. You're welcome to prove me wrong. Maybe some e-mails exchanged between Warren and the university regarding her hiring? Maybe some public statement about what Warren as a Native American had brought to the university? Maybe an university flyer highlighting what her NA American signified in regards to Warren's position? These are all standard with professors and lecturers. Try harder.
 
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Hatuey said:
And none show that the university hired because of her Native American heritage. Only that she presented herself as such. You're welcome to prove me wrong. Maybe some e-mails exchanged between Warren and the university regarding her hiring? Maybe some public statement about what Warren as a Native American had brought to the university? No? Try harder.
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She at first claimed she had not presented herself as Native American and then claimed she had not known the university categorized her as such. That claim became untenable.
 
Jack Hays said:
She at first claimed she had not presented herself as Native American and then claimed she had not known the university categorized her as such. That claim became untenable.
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Irrelevant to proving why she was hired. Keep trying Hays.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
She was born in America, wasn't she?

If she's not a native American, then to what nation is she native?
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Frankly I can only see this being an issue IF it demonstrates intent to mislead for personal gain by Warren.

Thus far I haven't seen anything that proves such occurred.
 
Jack Hays said:
That is your question, not mine. It's not something I need to prove, or even something I find interesting.
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Not really a question for me. I find the entire thing to be more silliness from the supposedly post-racial GOP.
 
Hatuey said:
Not really a question for me. I find the entire thing to be more silliness from the supposedly post-racial GOP.
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As noted earlier in this thread, the issue would be more useful to Hillary than to the Repubs.

A difficult aspect of the issue was highlighted by the WaPo Fact Checker.

". . . Nonetheless, Fried showed signs of acquiescing around the time that he joined the faculty appointments committee. The Harvard Law Record asked him in a 1992 Q&A, “How aggressively is the appointments committee pursuing women and minority faculty members?” Fried replied, “Very.”


When asked by the Record whether he believed in affirmative action, Fried replied, “Yes.”


Harvard hired Warren for a temporary position in 1992, and the law school reported a Native American woman on its federally mandated affirmative-action report. The program did not report a Native American woman for 1993 through 1995, during which time Warren was back at Penn — she had spurned Harvard’s initial offer of a tenured position, according to a Globe report. . . . "
 
Cardinal said:
It's interesting you would claim to know this. Are you a close friend or family member?
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Yes, I'm part Cherokee. We Cherokee know a bull****ter when we see one.
 
Hatuey said:
Good stuff, doesn't stop many people from claiming it because they believe their family lore. :shrug: Again, your beliefs on what people should and shouldn't do about their racial politics are irrelevant. Warren believed it because her family told her so. She identified as NA because she believed she was and there really is no way to prove otherwise. Don't like it? That's your problem.
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Exactly. If there is an integrity issue it happened generations back.
 
Jack Hays said:
As noted earlier in this thread, the issue would be more useful to Hillary than to the Repubs.

A difficult aspect of the issue was highlighted by the WaPo Fact Checker.

". . . Nonetheless, Fried showed signs of acquiescing around the time that he joined the faculty appointments committee. The Harvard Law Record asked him in a 1992 Q&A, “How aggressively is the appointments committee pursuing women and minority faculty members?” Fried replied, “Very.”


When asked by the Record whether he believed in affirmative action, Fried replied, “Yes.”


Harvard hired Warren for a temporary position in 1992, and the law school reported a Native American woman on its federally mandated affirmative-action report. The program did not report a Native American woman for 1993 through 1995, during which time Warren was back at Penn — she had spurned Harvard’s initial offer of a tenured position, according to a Globe report. . . . "
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Still can't find proof that Elizabeth Warren was hired because she was Native American? This is nothing more than circumstantial evidence. Hardly smoking gun evidence that Warren herself wasn't picked because of her abilities. Keep trying though. Maybe if you throw enough articles out, something will stick.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
Those that like her political stand will never care that she "might have been mistaken" about being a special protected minority. These are the same folks that call pulling a 180 on a given policy position either a flip-flop or an evolved position - depending entirely upon whether they like the person's political slant. The bottom line is that while republicants constantly lie and/or flip-flop, demorats simply occasionally misspeak and/or evolve to a different policy position. ;)
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Well, what I'm curious about now is - back when Ted Cruz was risking a government shut down in order to vote on Obamacare, he was 'holding America hostage', 'acting like a terrorist', etc. Now that ole Warren is doing the same - is Elizabeth Warren a terrorist?
 
Cardinal said:
Not me.
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you never know. The missus is related to Pocahontas. Got a copy of the corner of the family tree showing this. The whole tree covered a wall. Made for a great show and tell for the offspring here in Virginia.
 
Hatuey said:
Still can't find proof that Elizabeth Warren was hired because she was Native American? This is nothing more than circumstantial evidence. Hardly smoking gun evidence that Warren herself wasn't picked because of her abilities. Keep trying though. Maybe if you throw enough articles out, something will stick.
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As already noted, I have no need to prove anything. The cited circumstance is suggestive, and that suffices.
 
dogtowner said:
you never know. The missus is related to Pocahontas. Got a copy of the corner of the family tree showing this. The whole tree covered a wall. Made for a great show and tell for the offspring here in Virginia.
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My folks arrived Stateside pretty late in the game so any stories of family members procreating with a Native American wouldn't exactly be ancient history.
 
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