View Poll Results: Which is worse

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  • Drone strikes that result in innocent people getting killed in countries we are not at war with .

    18 42.86%
  • Enhanced interrogation/torture of terrorists?

    7 16.67%
  • Both are equally bad.

    15 35.71%
  • I do not know

    2 4.76%
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Thread: Which is worse?

  1. #31
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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Oh you're one of those people

    Attachment 67177291

    Sorry, that is not me. Try again.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

  2. #32
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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Read the link
    41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes

    "A new analysis of the data available to the public about drone strikes, conducted by the human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November."

    41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes
    Conducted by a human rights organization. I question the analysis.

  3. #33
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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Sorry, that is not me. Try again.
    You are on the "Bush lied" band wagon,so yes you are.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #34
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    Re: Which is worse?

    Drone strikes are so much worse.
    There is collateral damage with drone strikes. There is questions as to whether the target is guilty of anything. Drone strikes produce death while enhanced interrogation simply scares people.
    I don't consider enhanced interrogation techniques to be torture and I don't support torture. But torture is preferred over drone strikes. We are leaving thousands killed who are only "suspects" or in the general vicinity of a suspect at the time the drone hits.

  5. #35
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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrewerBob View Post
    I said both are equally bad, especially since I have zero confidence every single person tortured was in fact a terrorist.
    Wouldn't that make the drone strikes worse? One of the arguments many people have against the death penalty is if that guy is innocent you can't bring him back to life,while a man who is later found innocent can be released from prison. All those guys who were "tortured" if they are not convicted have released or will eventually be released.While all those who guys who were killed by a drone regardless if they were guilty or innocent won't be coming back to life.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #36
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    Conducted by a human rights organization. I question the analysis.
    Your response highlights an issue I've noted in many situations (no matter the political lean of the parties involved).

    People often do not believe what the "authorities" tell them - sometimes unreasonably, but other times "the authorities" assigned themselves that authority and are actually "the misleaders",.

    So far as I know there's no simple way to know for sure who to believe these days...perhaps it has always been that way?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #37
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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You are on the "Bush lied" band wagon,so yes you are.
    Anyone with no more than 2 brain cells can easily deduce that indeed Americans were conned into the Iraqi war. I have a lot more sympathy for Bush than you fathom... as he was one of those who was conned.

    And still, it is unfair to equate torture with Obama's drone attacks. It makes more sense to equate them to killing innocent civilians... like the invasion of Iraq.

    Try again.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

  8. #38
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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Anyone with no more than 2 brain cells can easily deduce that indeed Americans were conned into the Iraqi war. I have a lot more sympathy for Bush than you fathom... as he was one of those who was conned.
    Saddam had a history of using WMDs.Not only did he have a history of using WMDs he has a history of using WMDs more than a dozen times.Before Bush was even president people on both sides of the isle said he has WMDs.Saddam led people to believe he still had WMDs.So this idea that Bush lied about the Iraq war is an idiotic lie invented by die hard anti-Bush anti-war trash.


    And still, it is unfair to equate torture with Obama's drone attacks.
    No its not. It is hypocritical to complain about a temporarily inflicting pain on terrorists for information while killing terrorists and innocent civilians in countries we are not even at war with.


    It makes more sense to equate them to killing innocent civilians... like the invasion of Iraq.
    Civilians are casualties in every war, including the Afghanistan war.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #39
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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Saddam had a history of using WMDs.Not only did he have a history of using WMDs he has a history of using WMDs more than a dozen times.Before Bush was even president people on both sides of the isle said he has WMDs.Saddam led people to believe he still had WMDs.So this idea that Bush lied about the Iraq war is an idiotic lie invented by die hard anti-Bush anti-war trash.




    No its not. It is hypocritical to complain about a temporarily inflicting pain on terrorists for information while killing terrorists and innocent civilians in countries we are not even at war with.




    Civilians are casualties in every war, including the Afghanistan war.

    I am sorry you cannot tell the difference between torture and drone attacks. It's simple common sense for most.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

  10. #40
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Which is worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I am sorry you cannot tell the difference between torture and drone attacks. It's simple common sense for most.
    It's kinda odd trying to compare them.

    Torture (or "enhanced interrogation", if you want) is morally questionable (wrong, IMO) but I think, if used correctly, can develop useful intelligence...if the data gathered can be checked against other sources.

    Basically it's not a reliable source (because a person will say anything past a certain point) but it can point the way to seeking out more concrete information.

    It is also much more....personal and...in-your-face.


    Whereas drone attacks are somewhat impersonal (not for the pilots though) and have what many consider to be an unacceptable (read, higher than 0%) chance of killing unwitting/innocent bystanders (collateral damage is a term I dislike).
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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