• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

Should The Torture Report be Released Publicly?

  • Total voters
    90
Amadeus said:
Then America needs to STFU about being morally superior, being exceptional, or being the 'shining city on a hill'.
Click to expand...

Is it a requirement for politically correct liberals to be self hating Americans?
 
Amadeus said:
I haven't commented on the report, only the known use of torture authorized by the Bush Administration. You defend that, you lose the 'morals and values' argument.
Click to expand...

Listening to long Obama speeches is considered torture by many of us. One of the torture methods mentioned in the report that was just released is "loud rock music". And waterboarding is used against our on US Navy Seals as part of their training. I am okay with the enhanced interrogations of murderous terrorists. I have no sympathy or compassion whatsoever for bloody murderous terrorists. Are you more repulsed by the enhanced interrorgations then you are by the murder of 3000 innocent Americans?
 
ObamacareFail said:
So they should just blow them to bits with predator drones, huh?
Click to expand...

I don't support the drone program for many reasons. First and foremost is the collateral damage. For every one drone target, dozens of innocents seem to die.

41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes

A new analysis of the data available to the public about drone strikes, conducted by the human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November.
Click to expand...
 
MMC said:
Well, that's exactly what they are doing. What people on the Right should do.....is swamp the MS Media, and I do mean swamp them with calls telling them to be accurate in their reporting or suffer the consequences.

This is not a Senate Committee Report......It is the One Sided Democrat Report. So that's what it should be reported as. The one sided Senate Intel Report from the Democrats.

The report by the Democrats. The Demos investigation. Reported as, this is how the Demos do things. Their usual.

Also we now have been shown by the Left they would do whatever it takes to cause harm to the country, when they have lost power and now have to take the backseat. That they would rather have Americans face more Risks of Harm and Danger all due to their politics from their party.

Lets not forget that point when showing the MS Media where they actually are on the food chain.
Click to expand...

One example of that is their continued bald faced lie suggesting that the enhanced interrogations did not garner any actionable intelligence.
 
twixie1 said:
Well for a start..Russia told you not to interfere in the horrors that were going on in Syria..

Russia warned it could potentially retaliate if U.S. or Arab airstrikes go beyond targeting Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, and instead bomb any Syrian regime targets.

That seemed like poopy pants time for the USA..
Click to expand...
.

No...just for our moronic president.
 
Sabanist said:
Thata what the report read. You saw torture in a headline and went off screaming "TORTURERS!!! Get em!!" Mission accomplished by the media i guess.

But the reality is one guy was waterboarded and he deserved it.
Click to expand...

One guy was waterboarded? Don't make me google...

Sabanist said:
And why cant you say if one life is saved? Thats exactly what happened.
Click to expand...

I can say what I like, and you can do whatever you see needful, but torture is done by people who have lived all their lives on the other side of the line. People who grew up on the civilized side and crossed back over that line don't get to tell anyone about what's right and proper. No principles, no morality, no goddamn sense of right and wrong, all adds up to no respect. And don't bother telling me that 'respect' doesn't matter- I already see that.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Are you more repulsed by the enhanced interrorgations then you are by the murder of 3000 innocent Americans?
Click to expand...

I'm more repulsed that thousands more Americans died fighting a pointless war for a country that had already decided to abandon its morals.
 
Amadeus said:
I'm more repulsed that thousands more Americans died fighting a pointless war for a country that had already decided to abandon its morals.
Click to expand...

It's CORPORATE. There's all those resources, commodoties, pipelines, OIL, etc. You have to honor your committments to the KStreet lobbyists, not the citizen voters and taxpayers. Pointless, never, horse puckey. It's the same old story for the World's largest weapons dealers, "War is good business, and business is good." Largest Industry in the USA, don't ya' know? I mean, wars are being ginned up as we speak and it's done in your name, not as profitable weapons marketing.
 
Grand Mal said:
One guy was waterboarded? Don't make me google...



I can say what I like, and you can do whatever you see needful, but torture is done by people who have lived all their lives on the other side of the line. People who grew up on the civilized side and crossed back over that line don't get to tell anyone about what's right and proper. No principles, no morality, no goddamn sense of right and wrong, all adds up to no respect. And don't bother telling me that 'respect' doesn't matter- I already see that.
Click to expand...

One was in the report that you so value and believe every word of. Ksm. 184 times. People should thank the interrogators for getting the intel out of the bad guys.
 
Sabanist said:
One was in the report that you so value and believe every word of. Ksm. 184 times. People should thank the interrogators for getting the intel out of the bad guys.
Click to expand...

Back off, jack. Don't pull this bull****. Know what that is? That's you giving up. That's you bailing on the idea of discussing the subject and playing juvenile word games to impress the mass of lurkers you imagine are following this thread and hanging on your every word. Hell, I haven't even seen the report.
As I said, if you advocate torture you give up the right to tell anyone anything about right or wrong. If there's nothing you wouldn't do because it's wrong or nothing you wouldn't give up to be right, you're on the other side of the line and deserve the disrespect you get.
 
eohrnberger said:
Other than it's a stated goal of their religion, and that it's perfectly acceptable in their religion to kill off all the males of the society they invade / conquer.

Think again as to the civil unrest incidences in the EU countries that caused by larger scale Muslim rioting. Think again as to how the radicalism is being spread from Mosque to Mosque even in this country.

Imminent threat? Quite possibly. Immediate threat? Not so much, unless you consider 9/11 as only the opening salvo of a much longer time context in which they are viewing this conflict.

Are you really so sure that it's something the western nations can afford to ignore?
Click to expand...

Where is it a stated goal of their religion? It may be a stated goal of some extremists but that ain't the same thing.

As for the violence in the Qu'ran you kind of have to remember that the book was written 1500 years ago in a violent world. The Bible is similarly violent.
 
MMC said:
Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.

Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.

The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.

What say ye?
Click to expand...

The policy if systematic torture by the US was the worst and most outrageous mistake America made since 1945.

It is a disgrace for the country and massively damaged US and Western interests. As citizen of a NATO country and US ally, I feel deeply ashamed for these US policies.

Even the least bit about it must be made public, and those who broke law -- both US law, but especially also international human right standards the US too have signed and rhetorically claim to uphold on the world stage -- must be brought on trial and find punishment for their deeds.

Nobody who supports these policies has the slightest right to use the words "freedom", "democracy" or "justice" in the same sentence, because it is obvious that he or she does not have even the slightest idea what they mean.
 
Sabanist said:
Or if bo and co didnt grand stand. There was no point in this release other than to cause trouble. Thanks libs, hope yall are satisfied when a protest breaks out and people are killed
Click to expand...

I Love it.....GWB and the right-wing crowd engage in immoral activity that sells out America's integrity...and "libs" are the bad guys because we expose their behavior. Only in the warped minds of "Conservative" Americans.
 
German guy said:
The policy if systematic torture by the US was the worst and most outrageous mistake America made since 1945.

It is a disgrace for the country and massively damaged US and Western interests. As citizen of a NATO country and US ally, I feel deeply ashamed for these US policies.

Even the least bit about it must be made public, and those who broke law -- both US law, but especially also international human right standards the US too have signed and rhetorically claim to uphold on the world stage -- must be brought on trial and find punishment for their deeds.

Nobody who supports these policies has the slightest right to use the words "freedom", "democracy" or "justice" in the same sentence, because it is obvious that he or she does not have even the slightest idea what they mean.
Click to expand...


Mornin' German Guy. :2wave: So are you saying you would not torture a terrorist in order to save a multitude of people?
 
disneydude said:
I Love it.....GWB and the right-wing crowd engage in immoral activity that sells out America's integrity...and "libs" are the bad guys because we expose their behavior. Only in the warped minds of "Conservative" Americans.
Click to expand...

So are you saying you would not torture a terrorist to save many lives?
 
Gaius46 said:
Where is it a stated goal of their religion? It may be a stated goal of some extremists but that ain't the same thing.

As for the violence in the Qu'ran you kind of have to remember that the book was written 1500 years ago in a violent world. The Bible is similarly violent.
Click to expand...

Stated goal:
Worldwide Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ture-released-publicly-21.html#post1064076558

Agreed, the extremists have one agenda, and the majority of Muslims don't subscribe to that agenda, however, there are enough of them that do, and cause problems.

Yes, Christianity founding documents have some pretty brutal passages in them, but best that I can recall, there aren't any running around beheading innocent people, where as the Muslim Jihadists are.

As I've stated before, if the Jihadists were to live in an area and leave the rest of the world alone, I don't think anyone would bother them. However, their seemingly constant attacking innocents make this impossible.
 
German guy said:
The policy if systematic torture by the US was the worst and most outrageous mistake America made since 1945.

It is a disgrace for the country and massively damaged US and Western interests. As citizen of a NATO country and US ally, I feel deeply ashamed for these US policies.

Even the least bit about it must be made public, and those who broke law -- both US law, but especially also international human right standards the US too have signed and rhetorically claim to uphold on the world stage -- must be brought on trial and find punishment for their deeds.

Nobody who supports these policies has the slightest right to use the words "freedom", "democracy" or "justice" in the same sentence, because it is obvious that he or she does not have even the slightest idea what they mean.
Click to expand...

Now is the time to carefully analyze the papers, books, network, Internet and other media publications attempting to absolve or mitigate the gross misbehaviour of the CIA and senior USA gov't official responsible. The CIA has always organized covert operatives within major media as proved by the Church report in 1977. I am linking the Bernstein article from the period to elucidate some details. It is a lenghty read but worth the time. The current favorable journalistic articles being published yesterday, today and tomorrow will be CIA signatories working in media. Notice that a familiar name shows up in the short segment I have quoted.

Carl Bernstein

"The CIA’s intransigence led to an extraordinary dinner meeting at Agency headquarters in late March 1976. Those present included Senators Frank Church who had now been briefed by Bader), and John Tower, the vice‑chairman of the committee; Bader; William Miller, director of the committee staff; CIA director Bush; Agency counsel Rogovin; and Seymour Bolten, a high‑level CIA operative who for years had been a station chief in Germany and Willy Brandt’s case officer. Bolten had been deputized by Bush to deal with the committee’s requests for information on journalists and academics. At the dinner, the Agency held to its refusal to provide any full files. Nor would it give the committee the names of any individual journalists described in the 400 summaries or of the news organizations with whom they were affiliated. The discussion, according to participants, grew heated. The committee’s representatives said they could not honor their mandate—to determine if the CIA had abused its authority—without further information. The CIA maintained it could not protect its legitimate intelligence operations or its employees if further disclosures were made to the committee. Many of the journalists were contract employees of the Agency, Bush said at one point, and the CIA was no less obligated to them than to any other agents."
 
German guy said:
The policy if systematic torture by the US was the worst and most outrageous mistake America made since 1945.

It is a disgrace for the country and massively damaged US and Western interests. As citizen of a NATO country and US ally, I feel deeply ashamed for these US policies.

Even the least bit about it must be made public, and those who broke law -- both US law, but especially also international human right standards the US too have signed and rhetorically claim to uphold on the world stage -- must be brought on trial and find punishment for their deeds.

Nobody who supports these policies has the slightest right to use the words "freedom", "democracy" or "justice" in the same sentence, because it is obvious that he or she does not have even the slightest idea what they mean.
Click to expand...

close
but that dishonor actually goes to our war in vietnam
and i would submit that more and even worse evils were then perpetrated by and because of us during that engagement
 
DaveFagan said:
Now is the time to carefully analyze the papers, books, network, Internet and other media publications attempting to absolve or mitigate the gross misbehaviour of the CIA and senior USA gov't official responsible. The CIA has always organized covert operatives within major media as proved by the Church report in 1977. I am linking the Bernstein article from the period to elucidate some details. It is a lenghty read but worth the time. The current favorable journalistic articles being published yesterday, today and tomorrow will be CIA signatories working in media. Notice that a familiar name shows up in the short segment I have quoted.

Carl Bernstein

"The CIA’s intransigence led to an extraordinary dinner meeting at Agency headquarters in late March 1976. Those present included Senators Frank Church who had now been briefed by Bader), and John Tower, the vice‑chairman of the committee; Bader; William Miller, director of the committee staff; CIA director Bush; Agency counsel Rogovin; and Seymour Bolten, a high‑level CIA operative who for years had been a station chief in Germany and Willy Brandt’s case officer. Bolten had been deputized by Bush to deal with the committee’s requests for information on journalists and academics. At the dinner, the Agency held to its refusal to provide any full files. Nor would it give the committee the names of any individual journalists described in the 400 summaries or of the news organizations with whom they were affiliated. The discussion, according to participants, grew heated. The committee’s representatives said they could not honor their mandate—to determine if the CIA had abused its authority—without further information. The CIA maintained it could not protect its legitimate intelligence operations or its employees if further disclosures were made to the committee. Many of the journalists were contract employees of the Agency, Bush said at one point, and the CIA was no less obligated to them than to any other agents."
Click to expand...



Mornin DF. :2wave: Here is one for ya and Bernstein. You got a Terrorist and you got many lives you can save. Do you torture the terrorist or do you let the many people die? Choice is yours. You make the Call!
 
MMC said:
Mornin DF. :2wave: Here is one for ya and Bernstein. You got a Terrorist and you got many lives you can save. Do you torture the terrorist or do you let the many people die? Choice is yours. You make the Call!
Click to expand...

Well, if past is prologue, then the veracity of the CIA, who would be saying many lives could be saved with no supporting evidence except their say so, would have the same credibility as when they said, "We don't torture." I make the call and I don't torture. I'm not afraid of torture. I'm a SERE (torture program modeled on SERE) graduate from the 1960's and have first hand experience. Having seen otherwise ordinary military sign bogus germ warfare confessions because they were afraid of hypodermic needles, I can extrapolate without doubt that info obtained through torture is highly unreliable.
 
MMC said:
So are you saying you would not torture a terrorist to save many lives?
Click to expand...

First of all the premise of your question is extremely flawed. There is no evidence that torturing a terrorist saves any lives. In fact, most of the evidence shows exactly the opposite. That being said....if I am going to play along with your little game the answer would still be no. I would not mortgage the integrity of this nation to save lives. When you lower your standards to the level of your enemies, you are no better than them and any "victory" becomes a rather shallow one.
 
eohrnberger said:
Stated goal:
Worldwide Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ture-released-publicly-21.html#post1064076558

Agreed, the extremists have one agenda, and the majority of Muslims don't subscribe to that agenda, however, there are enough of them that do, and cause problems.

Yes, Christianity founding documents have some pretty brutal passages in them, but best that I can recall, there aren't any running around beheading innocent people, where as the Muslim Jihadists are.

As I've stated before, if the Jihadists were to live in an area and leave the rest of the world alone, I don't think anyone would bother them. However, their seemingly constant attacking innocents make this impossible.
Click to expand...


From the wikipedia entry you cited

A "Worldwide Caliphate" is the concept of a single theocratic one-world government as proposed by some Islamic extremists in their efforts to overthrow the world's current political systems.[1] The Daily Times reported that at a rally held in Islamabad[when?] the militant organization Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan called for the formation of a Worldwide Caliphate, which was to begin in Pakistan.[2]:
Click to expand...


A little further on this is given as the basis for the belief:

"As a universal religion, Islam envisages a global political order in which all humankind will live under Muslim rule as either believers or subject communities. In order to achieve this goal it is incumbent on all free, male, adult Muslims to carry out an uncompromising struggle 'in the path of Allah,' or jihad. This in turn makes those parts of the world that have not yet been conquered by the House of Islam an abode of permanent conflict (Dar al-Harb, the house of War) which will only end with Islam's eventual triumph."
Click to expand...


It should be noted that this is the opinion of one Efraim Karsh who is an Israeli born professor in the U.K. The fact that he is Israeli born, and that his other published opinions are distinctly anti-Palestinian, doesn't necessarily mean his opinion in this case is wrong but I for one wouldn't take it at face value.

As to your contention that Christians don't run around beheading people I'd just point to Kosovo and Northern Ireland.
 
Gaius46 said:
From the wikipedia entry you cited




A little further on this is given as the basis for the belief:




It should be noted that this is the opinion of one Efraim Karsh who is an Israeli born professor in the U.K. The fact that he is Israeli born, and that his other published opinions are distinctly anti-Palestinian, doesn't necessarily mean his opinion in this case is wrong but I for one wouldn't take it at face value.

As to your contention that Christians don't run around beheading people I'd just point to Kosovo and Northern Ireland.
Click to expand...

Beheadings..in Northern Ireland..when did this happen?

Beheadings in Kosovo??

Which was carried out by the Jihadists..
Not Christians..
 
disneydude said:
First of all the premise of your question is extremely flawed. There is no evidence that torturing a terrorist saves any lives. In fact, most of the evidence shows exactly the opposite. That being said....if I am going to play along with your little game the answer would still be no. I would not mortgage the integrity of this nation to save lives. When you lower your standards to the level of your enemies, you are no better than them and any "victory" becomes a rather shallow one.
Click to expand...

Its not flawed at all.....it is a simple matter. You have a terrorist and you have a great many people and their lives. Now you can save the people lives. Or you can refuse to not torture the terrorist and let all those people die. That is the choice. You make the call. Which do you do? Save the Lives or not torture the terrorist?
 
MMC said:
Its not flawed at all.....it is a simple matter. You have a terrorist and you have a great many people and their lives. Now you can save the people lives. Or you can refuse to not torture the terrorist and let all those people die. That is the choice. You make the call. Which do you do? Save the Lives or not torture the terrorist?
Click to expand...

Like I said....I played along with your little game, albeit a flawed one in reality. If torturing people actually saved any lives it wouldn't be flawed
(show us any evidence that shoving hummus up someone's ass saves lives)....nevertheless, I would not bankrupt the integrity and morality of this country by engaging in that kind of vile behavior.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom