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Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

Should The Torture Report be Released Publicly?


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It's such white-washed window dressing though. None of these people care about us.

Well, the Demos showed the Military that and forced the Repubs to agree on NDAA. A Mandatory Bill that had to be passed. All Right here before Christmas too.

What really Irks me is the Repubs didn't even fight it. Other than getting the decrease down to 1%.

There is a reason why there are over 35k on the footnotes. Taking 20 or so cases out of thousands and using this to degrade our own Intel people. Is ridiculous.....they are suppose to be degrading ISIS. Not our own people.
 
Any secrecy allowed in government is automatically a turn for more secrecy and shadowy behavior:2wave:
 
It's such white-washed window dressing though. None of these people care about us.

I think the "Torture" is and was reprehensible. When you agree to torture, you are agreeing to have your own soldiers tortured, tit for tat, don't ya' know. It represents the low moral agenda that US policies have become under both Repubs and Dems. We've got a nice CORPORATE gov't that is real people because the SCOTUS says so. Don't live and breathe, don't feel pain, don't choke on smog, don't get cancer, are not limited by human frailities like death, and can be bankrupted to escape/minimize liability. Chaos, death, torture, terror, etc. are just side effects of that CORPORATE mantra; "War is good business, and business is good."
 
I don't see the benefit of scratching this scab, yet once again, and making it bleed in public, yet once again, especially so if it places our embassies and our overseas personnel and tourists in any sort of risk of increased terrorist activities.

Complaints about various House investigative committees foolishly spending public monies have been all over this board. This one sided reports that the Democrats insist on spent $40M. Do the same people condemn this foolish expenditure of public monies? So spending public monies in pursuit of one sided political advantage is hardly as one sided as many want everyone to believe.

One thing that seems to be an odd coincidence is that Gruber is testifying before congress today probably about his comments that have recently gone viral on the Internet. No idea if it's connected or not, but the timing of the release of this torture report does seem almost planned, somehow. Of is there yet another news Obama scandal yet waiting in the wings?



Mornin Eorhn. :2wave: That's Right. Gruber is testifying today. Around the same time.....they will release this report. Good catch on that.

Carl Levin the Demo is retiring. So we wont have to worry about him afterwards. There goes the Demos major back up on this committee. But its not like the other Demos on this Committee can hide.

Which all their names should be brought out and put on display too.
 
This is from the Philippines, an Ally. Already it has begun and the report isn't out. Yet someone has been talking from Team BO.....huh? This will cost us contacts and moles, will jeopardize our allies who are conducting business. All while BO and the Demos want to talk about our values. Note how the terminology is changed for those overseas. The Term Terrorists, is not and will not be used. Overseas they will use the term Militants. Not unlawful combatants even.


CIA sexual threats, 'torture' in senate report.....


The Senate Intelligence Committee prepared to release a report on the CIA's anti-terrorism tactics on Tuesday and U.S. officials moved to shore up security at American facilities around the world as a precaution. The report will include graphic details about sexual threats and other harsh interrogation techniques the CIA meted out to captured militants in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, sources familiar with the document said on Monday.

The report, which Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein said would be released on Tuesday, describes how al Qaeda operative Abdel Rahman al Nashiri, suspected mastermind of the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, was threatened with a buzzing power drill, the sources said. The drill was never actually used on him. It documents how at least one detainee was sexually threatened with a broomstick, the sources said.

"We are concerned that this release could endanger the lives of Americans overseas, jeopardize U.S. relations with foreign partners, potentially incite violence, create political problems for our allies, and be used as a recruitment tool for our enemies," Senators Marco Rubio and Jim Risch said in a statement on Monday.....snip~

CIA sexual threats, 'torture' in senate report - 9News


OMG.....
th



Terrorists were threatened and even with a broomstick.
damn.gif
One can see how the tickle feather and the baby talk could have been used as psychological cruelty.
think.gif

In the EU the threat is counted as torture. The head of police in Frankfurt was removed from his job a few years ago after such a threat and later promoted.
Personally, i think that considering threats to be torture is stupid as it removes the meaning from the word. Of course, it might be that smudging the lines is in some people's and even some peoples' interest. So do not take their schmooze at face value.
 
Mornin Eorhn. :2wave: That's Right. Gruber is testifying today. Around the same time.....they will release this report. Good catch on that.

Carl Levin the Demo is retiring. So we wont have to worry about him afterwards. There goes the Demos major back up on this committee. But its not like the other Demos on this Committee can hide.

Which all their names should be brought out and put on display too.

True. Prior to all this conflagration and self-immolation over this issue, the methods and procedures for this enhance interrogation were in fact clearly stated before the Intelligence committees, so even the Democrats on those committee can't claim ignorance on this. By releasing this report, they are implicating themselves as much as they are implicating their Republican opposition, although, I'll wager their names are probably not specifically listed in the report, where as the Republican ones are probably in bold type.

Multiple intelligence directors and directly involved personnel during those years have come out and stated how much useful intelligence was in fact gained by this. The number 2,000 reports and leads keeps coming on this. So the meme that enhance interrogation is infective appears to be inaccurate, at least when done properly.

The effectiveness or ineffectiveness one aspect of this (appears to be yes). The other is the legality of it at the time it was performed (also appears to be yes). Lastly is the consideration of should the US engaged in these practices, and to the last one, I'd have to say no.
 
I think the "Torture" is and was reprehensible. When you agree to torture, you are agreeing to have your own soldiers tortured, tit for tat, don't ya' know. It represents the low moral agenda that US policies have become under both Repubs and Dems. We've got a nice CORPORATE gov't that is real people because the SCOTUS says so. Don't live and breathe, don't feel pain, don't choke on smog, don't get cancer, are not limited by human frailities like death, and can be bankrupted to escape/minimize liability. Chaos, death, torture, terror, etc. are just side effects of that CORPORATE mantra; "War is good business, and business is good."


Mornin DF :2wave: Aren't we coming late to the game when it comes to torturing? How long has McCain been evidence of this? What about those who helped our people. One can see what will take place with those considered contacts to get us in, wherever.



White House and Republicans Clash Over C.I.A. Torture Report.....


Former Vice President Dick Cheney added his voice to those of other Bush administration officials defending the C.I.A., declaring in an interview Monday that its harsh interrogations a decade ago were “absolutely, totally justified,” and dismissing allegations that the agency withheld information from the White House or inflated the value of its methods.

The White House acknowledged that the report could pose a “greater risk” to American installations and personnel in countries like Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Libya and Iraq. But it said that the government had months to plan for the reverberations from its report — indeed, years — and that those risks should not delay the release of the report by the Senate Intelligence Committee. “When would be a good time to release this report?” the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, asked. “It’s difficult to imagine one, particularly given the painful details that will be included.”

In addition to tightening security at embassies, the Pentagon will bolster the protection of its forces in Afghanistan, officials said. Intelligence agencies will ramp up their monitoring of the communications of terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and the Islamic State.

Among the administration’s concerns is that terrorist groups will exploit the disclosures in the report for propaganda value. The Islamic State already clads its American hostages in orange jumpsuits, like those worn by prisoners in C.I.A. interrogations. Hostages held by the Islamic State in Syria were subjected to waterboarding, one of the practices used by the C.I.A. to extract information from suspected terrorists.....snip~

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/09/u...e-and-gop-clash-over-torture-report.html?_r=0

Oh I see.
icon_cyclops_ani.gif
Team BO says its okay for those Americans in those countries to have a greater Risk of being killed, kidnapped and used for political purposes. Got it! ;)
 
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True. Prior to all this conflagration and self-immolation over this issue, the methods and procedures for this enhance interrogation were in fact clearly stated before the Intelligence committees, so even the Democrats on those committee can't claim ignorance on this. By releasing this report, they are implicating themselves as much as they are implicating their Republican opposition, although, I'll wager their names are probably not specifically listed in the report, where as the Republican ones are probably in bold type.

Multiple intelligence directors and directly involved personnel during those years have come out and stated how much useful intelligence was in fact gained by this. The number 2,000 reports and leads keeps coming on this. So the meme that enhance interrogation is infective appears to be inaccurate, at least when done properly.

The effectiveness or ineffectiveness one aspect of this (appears to be yes). The other is the legality of it at the time it was performed (also appears to be yes). Lastly is the consideration of should the US engaged in these practices, and to the last one, I'd have to say no.


Well as you can see Eorhn. BO says they think Americans in those specific countries have more of a risk as to something happening to them. Its a concern.....but they are willing to live with it.
 
Mornin DF :2wave: Aren't we coming late to the game when it comes to torturing? How long has McCain been evidence of this? What about those who helped our people. One can see what will take place with those considered contacts to get us in, wherever.



White House and Republicans Clash Over C.I.A. Torture Report.....


Former Vice President Dick Cheney added his voice to those of other Bush administration officials defending the C.I.A., declaring in an interview Monday that its harsh interrogations a decade ago were “absolutely, totally justified,” and dismissing allegations that the agency withheld information from the White House or inflated the value of its methods.

The White House acknowledged that the report could pose a “greater risk” to American installations and personnel in countries like Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Libya and Iraq. But it said that the government had months to plan for the reverberations from its report — indeed, years — and that those risks should not delay the release of the report by the Senate Intelligence Committee. “When would be a good time to release this report?” the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, asked. “It’s difficult to imagine one, particularly given the painful details that will be included.”

In addition to tightening security at embassies, the Pentagon will bolster the protection of its forces in Afghanistan, officials said. Intelligence agencies will ramp up their monitoring of the communications of terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and the Islamic State.

Among the administration’s concerns is that terrorist groups will exploit the disclosures in the report for propaganda value. The Islamic State already clads its American hostages in orange jumpsuits, like those worn by prisoners in C.I.A. interrogations. Hostages held by the Islamic State in Syria were subjected to waterboarding, one of the practices used by the C.I.A. to extract information from suspected terrorists.....snip~

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/09/u...e-and-gop-clash-over-torture-report.html?_r=0

Oh I see.
icon_cyclops_ani.gif
Team BO says its okay for those Americans in those countries to have a greater Risk of being killed, kidnapped and used for political purposes. Got it! ;)

I read about possible reprecussions of the release of the report as a huge red herring. A lot of prisoners died form torture and I'm sure this report finally acknowledges that fact, plus the fact that no, zero, nada, zip actionable intelligence was elicited from torture. Releasing the report doesn't make it right, but at least reinforces the point that the torture mentality is no longer OK. It moves us, as a Nation, to a slightly higher moral ground. Our current moral ground is well below sea level, somewhere near whale fecal matter.
 
I read about possible reprecussions of the release of the report as a huge red herring. A lot of prisoners died form torture and I'm sure this report finally acknowledges that fact, plus the fact that no, zero, nada, zip actionable intelligence was elicited from torture. Releasing the report doesn't make it right, but at least reinforces the point that the torture mentality is no longer OK. It moves us, as a Nation, to a slightly higher moral ground. Our current moral ground is well below sea level, somewhere near whale fecal matter.

How is it a red herring for those who are our contacts in Whatever ME or African Country, they are sided with us. Will their people consider them traitors?

Oh, and as to not bringing anything to us which we benefitted from. That is incorrect.....the same techniques were used and is what lead us to Osama Bin Laden. Which BO and his team Aptly took credit for and then declared AQ was on the run.
 
Well, the Demos showed the Military that and forced the Repubs to agree on NDAA. A Mandatory Bill that had to be passed. All Right here before Christmas too.

What really Irks me is the Repubs didn't even fight it. Other than getting the decrease down to 1%.

There is a reason why there are over 35k on the footnotes. Taking 20 or so cases out of thousands and using this to degrade our own Intel people. Is ridiculous.....they are suppose to be degrading ISIS. Not our own people.

Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

Is this what is called "damage control?" Gruber is testifying today, which is going to make Obama and the Dems look bad, so let's get this report out today on torture that was happening in 2004 to make the Repubs look bad? We all saw photos of Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad at the time, - it's disgusting history, but Bush wasn't there interrogating anyone, so what's the point? If it's to show us that bad things happen in war, hell we already knew that, and so did the Dem leadership at the time since they were kept advised! Gruber's testimony will be enlightening on how the ACA was conceived, and why it had to be kept secret from the public, so we shall see how the MSM handles this, since this affects everybody now!
 
How is it a red herring for those who are our contacts in Whatever ME or African Country, they are sided with us. Will their people consider them traitors?

Oh, and as to not bringing anything to us which we benefitted from. That is incorrect.....the same techniques were used and is what lead us to Osama Bin Laden. Which BO and his team Aptly took credit for and then declared AQ was on the run.

The report is going to make a lot of politicians and CIA management, both Dem and Repub, look like a bag of skunk's bungholes. Uruguay just accepted 6 prisoners from Guantanamo that were renditioned (kidnapped), tortured, and released without charges after 12 years. I think anyone in this Nation or Overseas that participated in the torture should look like a pile of donkey droppings, ergo if they are considered traitors to their own Nation's ideals, then they deserve what they get.
 
The report is going to make a lot of politicians and CIA management, both Dem and Repub, look like a bag of skunk's bungholes. Uruguay just accepted 6 prisoners from Guantanamo that were renditioned (kidnapped), tortured, and released without charges after 12 years. I think anyone in this Nation or Overseas that participated in the torture should look like a pile of donkey droppings, ergo if they are considered traitors to their own Nation's ideals, then they deserve what they get.

but doj/gonzales oversaw the fabrication of a document that would give them legal authority to engage in torture
 
Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

Is this what is called "damage control?" Gruber is testifying today, which is going to make Obama and the Dems look bad, so let's get this report out today on torture that was happening in 2004 to make the Repubs look bad? We all saw photos of Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad at the time, - it's disgusting history, but Bush wasn't there interrogating anyone, so what's the point? If it's to show us that bad things happen in war, hell we already knew that, and so did the Dem leadership at the time since they were kept advised! Gruber's testimony will be enlightening on how the ACA was conceived, and why it had to be kept secret from the public, so we shall see how the MSM handles this, since this affects everybody now!

Yeah Lady P.....just another one of those coincydincys.
f_whistle.gif
 
but doj/gonzales oversaw the fabrication of a document that would give them legal authority to engage in torture

Yep, and he's been portrayed in the media as a bag of crap ever since. Just desserts.
 
The report is going to make a lot of politicians and CIA management, both Dem and Repub, look like a bag of skunk's bungholes. Uruguay just accepted 6 prisoners from Guantanamo that were renditioned (kidnapped), tortured, and released without charges after 12 years. I think anyone in this Nation or Overseas that participated in the torture should look like a pile of donkey droppings, ergo if they are considered traitors to their own Nation's ideals, then they deserve what they get.

Well.....the CIA also was able to come up with Intel on Ansar al Sharia and Bin Ladens Driver who set up shop in Libya. As well as Intel on Taliban. So again the Demos saying nothing was gained from a few interrogations. Is BS.

What good does it do to release this now? None can't say this won't affect operations or dealing with others that are in the field.
 
Yep, and he's been portrayed in the media as a bag of crap ever since. Just desserts.

he and rice are unique at the moment by their silence about the pending release of the torture report
 
I read about possible reprecussions of the release of the report as a huge red herring. A lot of prisoners died form torture and I'm sure this report finally acknowledges that fact, plus the fact that no, zero, nada, zip actionable intelligence was elicited from torture. Releasing the report doesn't make it right, but at least reinforces the point that the torture mentality is no longer OK. It moves us, as a Nation, to a slightly higher moral ground. Our current moral ground is well below sea level, somewhere near whale fecal matter.

"A lot of prisoners died form torture and I'm sure this report finally acknowledges that fact", this appears to be assuming facts not in evidence.

Which person or persons died from enhanced interrogation while in US custody?
 
One of the last Leftist's final attempts to throw the Right under the bus.

Actually, no. The "Leftists" have had the opportunity but threw the opportunity under the bus when Pelosi said "impeachment is off the table". The CIA, among others, operates with almost complete immunity. That concerns me.

At this point in the political game no matter what is reported to the public about torture - and it won't be much of anything - there will be NO clear line of responsibility for any wrong doing or the authorization or approval or knowledge of any wrong doing. "Mr. Transparency" hasn't been transparent and he isn't going to start now. We have no reason whatsoever to expect a conservative government to be transparent. Indeed, we don't really hear that from conservatives.

What bothers me most is that more and more Americans seem to support incremental fascism.

We have reached a point in America where what we really know about the government is what the government tells us. That should bother every American, though unfortunately it does not. As a result, for all we know, we have a government that creates and supports the idea of a big boogie man that must be dealt with. And to deal with that boogie man Americans must trust the government, who in turn and in bits and pieces tells Americans only what it says Americans need to know. Later the government says, "We need to take away some of your freedom to protect you. Trust us." Later still we are told that more freedom needs to be given up because fighting the boogey man is really hard. "Trust us more, we will keep you safe."

Later yet, the world discovers via WikiLeaks and Julian Assange that maybe Americans shouldn't trust their government. But many Americans are very scared and as Washington cranks up its propaganda machine to use on the American people (now legal, signed into law by Obama, by the way) are told over and over and over and over that Assange is not to be trusted. "His truth hurts America. He is a serial rapist. Trust us, we know. We are keeping you safe." And thus American fascism continue to grow inch by inch, lie by lie, freedoms lost bit by bit. Americans for the most part don't listen to Assange. They've been told not to.

Next we have Snowden reveal to us that the government has unquestionably lied its ass off to the American people. The government has taken liberties where it said it would not. The government has taken liberties where it says it did not. We discover, in fact, that what Snowden bravely exposed is correct. Our government has not been telling us the truth. Our government has lied to us - a lot. Our basic rights have been abused and shattered. Responding to Snowden's revelations the government countered with massive propaganda and even though we know Snowden was correct, the American masses listened to the government's never ending, "But we are spying on you for you. Yes, we made a mistake, but we didn't mean to. We won't do it anymore. Promise. Besides we only do it to protect you from the boogie man we keep telling you about. Trust us". Americans are told to hate Snowden, so Americans hate Snowden. And fascism creeps deeper into America as Americans do what they are told.

What Americans really know about their government is what their government tells them. On a continuum we are either moving closer to the Constitution or further away from it.
 
Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.

Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.

The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.

What say ye?

Hard to control the government if they keep everything secret. Things need to be open. Not that this report will be honest, likely not. But I think the real fear isn't from increased attack, but from pissing off The People even more.
 
I've been waterboarded and a few other interrogation techniques, as were all guys that would be potentially put in that position to understand what it felt like and how to not let it break you. Now... it was not fun, but it was not torcher either.

This is nothing but a political attack on the GOP and BW Bush. Nothing more than that.

And by doing so, the Democrats in the Senate are putting our military, our civilians overseas, and even civilians here at home in grave danger.

This is as close to treason as I have seen in my lifetime done by any politician in any political party. If they think this will garner them power or prestige, they are mistaken. If they think this will garner support from the military, they are grossly mistaken. If they think that this will help them politically at home, they are mentally unbalanced. And, if they think this will help us overseas in our war against terrorism and provide protection from further attacks... well...

IF this report is released, charges should be brought against those that do. Just like they are wanting to do to Edward Snowden. Because this is worse. These Senators took an oath to protect and defend, not attack and endanger.

So you'd be perfectly fine with terrorists using the exact same techniques on American troops? Even if said soldier was a member of your family? Heck it's not torture--as you say--so no big whoop, right?
 
"A lot of prisoners died form torture and I'm sure this report finally acknowledges that fact", this appears to be assuming facts not in evidence.

Which person or persons died from enhanced interrogation while in US custody?

That information should be known in a fully disclosed report, no? Another good reason for releasing a full non-redacted report.
 
Reaction to the Senate interrogation report going about as expected: ‘May Allaah destroy these filthy bastards’.....

Fantastic. Exit note, the Guardian also credits @ShamiWitness as playing a role helping ISIS recruit foreign fighters:

The most influential tweeter for foreign fighters was named as Shami Witness, a social media operator whose popularity has swollen in tandem with the territorial expansion of Isis, from 4,700 to 11,900 followers since April. It is an increase that some experts say chimes with his apparent evolution from anti-Assad activist to supporter of Isis, but his political evolution has, says Neumann, implications for western security. “You might have a wannabe foreign fighter sitting at home in Portsmouth and he can simply reach out to Shami Witness. He plays a role linking wannabes with foreign fighters.”

Over to you, Sen. Feinstein.....snip~

Reaction to the Senate interrogation report going about as expected: ‘May Allaah destroy these filthy bastards’ | Twitchy
 
That information should be known in a fully disclosed report, no? Another good reason for releasing a full non-redacted report.

No. I seriously doubt that any detainees died because of enhanced interrogation while in US custody.

Of course, that doesn't speak to any of the deaths that occurred while in custody of any other nations.
 
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