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Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

Should The Torture Report be Released Publicly?

  • Total voters
    90
joG said:
If there is a question of veracity involved, the publication might be a problem and should be held back for a few months. Maybe marking and explaining the problems and open questions would be enough. But there can be no question that we need to know exactly what happened.
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Heya Jog. :2wave: Maybe, the Demos talking to some live witnesses might help too.
hmmm.gif
 
CanadaJohn said:
I'm sorry - what wasn't a confrontation? The Korean war?
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Torture in the United States includes documented and alleged cases of torture both inside the United States and outside its borders by U.S. government personnel. This includes the U.S. government, fifty U.S. state and territorial governments, 3,033 county, and thousands of municipal governments, all of which have their own independent judicial systems. All are subject to the U.S. Constitution and their own state constitutions...
 
Lutherf said:
That's pretty much it. I've seen some pretty bad "purple nurple's" back in the day and we never called that torture. Given the choice of guys walking into the room with a gallon of water and a dish towel or coming in with a car battery and jumper cables I'll take the water every time.
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There were "deaths" associated with this torture and this report allegedly acknowledges that. Ergo, what you say is either from lack of information or ignorance or lying. I can't tell which. I am, like beaudreaux, a graduate of E & E, but it's not the same as this report will acknowledge. Why do you think they would be fightning it if it was just about lightweight torture. Ask yourself why the CIA had these people tortured at "black sites" in foreign countries, if it is so harmless?
 
CanadaJohn said:
Good morning/afternoon Ocean,

I'm generally in agreement with you on most matters but I have to question your faith in/belief that government has unquestioned "expertise". Only through active public oversight and accountability do we ensure that our collective reputations aren't sullied by the corruptions of a few with power.
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A good day to you CJ. I am most certainly painting with a broader brush in my statement than I would apply if held to specifics. I am always suspect of unaccountable government power, and that would apply to the military as well. However, for clarification, "leave it to experts" to me include considerations for accountability, propriety, and other reasonable/rational considerations.

I think there is a fine line between the need to know, and the need to not know.

What I do know is the line facing the need to know usually ends up being a few steps behind where we end up standing. IMO, more effect can be generated from what our detractors think we will do, than what they learn we will do.
 
WCH said:
One of the last Leftist's final attempts to throw the Right under the bus.
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If your actions are so cowardly that you're thrown under the bus by the world knowing about them, you deserve everything you get. Don't like people getting upset that you tortured people? Don't torture people.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Waterboarding and sleep deprivation is not torcher. I have endured it - it is not torcher. There are no long lasting effects, just short term discomfort to break down resistance to questioning.

Maybe you will change your mind when an attack happens that effects your own family and friends. I would hope you would.
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As a matter of principle I must condemn any act of torture, according to the terms of Geneva convention.
 
'Repoooooort!'

'Herr Commandant! All prezzent and accounted for!'
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
If your actions are so cowardly that you're thrown under the bus by the world knowing about them, you deserve everything you get. Don't like people getting upset that you tortured people? Don't torture people.
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Better yet, don't want to get tortured? Don't F with the U.S.. Problem solved. :peace
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
That is a bold statement since we as a country have a history of F-ing around with other countries.
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Yes it is a bold statement, and yes we do have a history of F-ing around with other countries. Some countries need F-ing with, and some, in hindsight, we should have left alone. That doesn't change the truth behind my statement.
 
The people of USA need to know the truth about our government's spending and activities or (representational) democracy is a farce. If the USA is honest, assumes responsibility for past mistakes and takes immediate corrective action to end the use of torture it will be better for international relations in the long run compared to just lying and covering up the practices that everybody already knows we did.

For those who didn't know, although it appears that Obama has ended the use of torture by our government, the USA still uses renditions to have people tortured by others.
 
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ocean515 said:
Yes it is a bold statement, and yes we do have a history of F-ing around with other countries. Some countries need F-ing with, and some, in hindsight, we should have left alone. That doesn't change the truth behind my statement.
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And you don't think that maybe the people living in the countries we F-up have had enough of being F-ed with?
 
MMC said:
Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.

Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.

The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.

What say ye?
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It's a bad idea IMO. It will serve no purpose but to anger our enemies.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
As a matter of principle I must condemn any act of torture, according to the terms of Geneva convention.
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I am sure Johnny Quest McCain said the same thing before he was tortured.

Same for those in Nam.


Fudginpoopeypants the Geneva convention.
 
twixie1 said:
There are 2 sides to this story..will Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq do the same?? As they tortured and murdered our troops

As far as I am concerned ''What happens in a war zone..should stay in the war zone!''
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Guantanamo and many other sites used for torture were not in war zones.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I've been waterboarded and a few other interrogation techniques, as were all guys that would be potentially put in that position to understand what it felt like and how to not let it break you. Now... it was not fun, but it was not torcher either....
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When you were waterboarded you knew they weren't going to kill you. A prisoner does not have that sense of security. You probably were not subjected to it as long as actual prisoners were either.
 
MMC said:
I am sure Johnny Quest McCain said the same thing before he was tortured.

Same for those in Nam.


Fudginpoopeypants the Geneva convention.
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Every act of torture we comit undermines our position on the world stage.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Waterboarding and sleep deprivation is not torcher. I have endured it - it is not torcher. There are no long lasting effects, just short term discomfort to break down resistance to questioning.

Maybe you will change your mind when an attack happens that effects your own family and friends. I would hope you would.
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Extreme sleep deprivation is extreme torture that has driven people to insanity, self harm and suicide. The definition of torture does not require long term lasting effects.

In my view, all torturers should be put on trial for their crimes. If a jury accepts their "ticking timebomb" justifications* as legitimate then they will be acquitted.

*"I was only following orders" is not a legitimate justification
 
ocean515 said:
Better yet, don't want to get tortured? Don't F with the U.S.. Problem solved. :peace
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Torture is used to find out if the person even did anything wrong in the first place. We're a first world country that should be respecting human rights. There was no trial and torture of human beings that they were too lazy to convict. You may want that done in your name but I don't.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I've been waterboarded and a few other interrogation techniques, as were all guys that would be potentially put in that position to understand what it felt like and how to not let it break you. Now... it was not fun, but it was not torcher either.

This is nothing but a political attack on the GOP and BW Bush. Nothing more than that.

And by doing so, the Democrats in the Senate are putting our military, our civilians overseas, and even civilians here at home in grave danger.

This is as close to treason as I have seen in my lifetime done by any politician in any political party. If they think this will garner them power or prestige, they are mistaken. If they think this will garner support from the military, they are grossly mistaken. If they think that this will help them politically at home, they are mentally unbalanced. And, if they think this will help us overseas in our war against terrorism and provide protection from further attacks... well...

IF this report is released, charges should be brought against those that do. Just like they are wanting to do to Edward Snowden. Because this is worse. These Senators took an oath to protect and defend, not attack and endanger.
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Your experience was totally different as you knew they would not drown you.

The point of waterboarding is not the pain it inflicts. It is to cause the person to fear for their life.

It is also effective if one wishes to not leave obvious remnants on the victim's body of the torture (like beatings often do).
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
And you don't think that maybe the people living in the countries we F-up have had enough of being F-ed with?
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Apparently not.

Consider the Middle East (Iraq, Iran, etc.) I don't think for a second that the majority of people in the world give a crap about those people trying so desperately to remove themselves from the gene pool. For the "West" (or all the others not in the ME), it's all about the energy found in those regions the world needs right now to survive and feed itself. They/We, are perfectly willing to pay good money for those energy products, and the people can wipe their butts with it, or whatever they want to do. However, screw with that supply, and that threatens the people of the world, so get ready to be pounded into dust. It's all pretty simple.

Once the world has transitioned farther from the basic energy supplies the ME has, the people will be left to eliminate themselves from the earth, one battle rooted in ancient insults after another.
 
twixie1 said:
Does Guantanamo still exist??
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Yes, it does.
I saw a news blurb yesterday that a couple of detainees were being released after 12 years.
I've heard for years that Guantanamo holds the worst of the worst terrorists.
These alleged terrorists were held, never charged then released after TWELVE YEARS.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Torture is used to find out if the person even did anything wrong in the first place. We're a first world country that should be respecting human rights. There was no trial and torture of human beings that they were too lazy to convict. You may want that done in your name but I don't.
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How about this?

UK troops reported the USA troops for torturing..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Jp-IXu93M

Or maybe some of you would rather not watch this??
 
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