View Poll Results: Should The Torture Report be Released Publicly?

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  • Yes

    69 62.16%
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    35 31.53%
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    7 6.31%
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Thread: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

  1. #341
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    Ok very well, im not ok with any of it. However if the terrorists employed tactics we used rather than the ones they currently use then yea, im good
    With it.

    Now you, would you rather see more attacks on americans rather than the waterboarding if ksm?

    Be the first!!
    I knew it. Thanks for your honesty. What's good for the goose is not good for the gander.

    And your question posed to me makes zero sense unless your prove to me that waterboarding (or torture) causes less attacks on American soldiers.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  2. #342
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The ONLY reason Gitmo hasn't been closed was because the GOP-led House refused to fund the closure. That's the ONLY reason.
    OK, so you'd have brought them onto the US shores, and the entire expensive, long, and drawn out legal process that this would entail?

    You have a bottomless pit of money to pay for all that? Something on the order of $20M per detainee? For legal rights that these people aren't even entitled to?

    And at the end of all that, to release them from custody, probably in neighborhood where innocent civilians live?

    This seems like madness to me.
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  3. #343
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    OK, so you'd have brought them onto the US shores, and the entire expensive, long, and drawn out legal process that this would entail?

    You have a bottomless pit of money to pay for all that? Something on the order of $20M per detainee? For legal rights that these people aren't even entitled to?

    And at the end of all that, to release them from custody, probably in neighborhood where innocent civilians live?

    This seems like madness to me.
    You're missing the point. The U.S. signed the Geneva Convention. The only reason why Gitmo is not opening up the Human Rights Tribunal to go after the United States is because Gitmo falls out of the signatory regions, that's it. It's a grey area, legally speaking. Morally speaking, we all know what's going on there and that it's against everything the United States says it stands for. The point is that we are supposed to be above this gulag behavior, not partaking in it.

    More than likely, Gitmo is a place where top U.S. informants are being held, otherwise they would spill the beans to the whole western media about this entire corrupt operation. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer, etc.

    Look at the position the U.S. government is in. We can't let them go because, yes, they will run right to the nearest rebels and tell horror stories of OUR dishonor, which will just embolden our enemies. Yet the government won't just try them in U.S. courts because they will air ALL of our dirty laundry.

    The people in Gitmo will be, in some form or another, in our custody forever, probably until they die. The other options present huge risks to the government. Forget our national "safety", it's not about that. Our safety was blown years ago. This is about protecting the asses of our government. If we knew half of their dirty ops, there would be a revolution tomorrow.

  4. #344
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    You're missing the point. The U.S. signed the Geneva Convention. The only reason why Gitmo is not opening up the Human Rights Tribunal to go after the United States is because Gitmo falls out of the signatory regions, that's it. It's a grey area, legally speaking. Morally speaking, we all know what's going on there and that it's against everything the United States says it stands for. The point is that we are supposed to be above this gulag behavior, not partaking in it.

    More than likely, Gitmo is a place where top U.S. informants are being held, otherwise they would spill the beans to the whole western media about this entire corrupt operation. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer, etc.

    Look at the position the U.S. government is in. We can't let them go because, yes, they will run right to the nearest rebels and tell horror stories of OUR dishonor, which will just embolden our enemies. Yet the government won't just try them in U.S. courts because they will air ALL of our dirty laundry.

    The people in Gitmo will be, in some form or another, in our custody forever, probably until they die. The other options present huge risks to the government. Forget our national "safety", it's not about that. Our safety was blown years ago. This is about protecting the asses of our government. If we knew half of their dirty ops, there would be a revolution tomorrow.
    Yes, I know that the U.S. signed the Geneva Convention. It is my understanding that the Geneva Convention doesn't cover the terrorists / Islamic extremist militants. It does speaks to civilians and it speaks to captured uniformed military personnel. It even speaks to uniformed militia. I don't think it speaks to non-uniformed Unlawful combatant / Terrorist, although the closest I think, my best guess, might be spy, aren't they summarily executed?

    And what are you going to do with them? Their own countries of origin don't want them back. The countries they want to go to don't want them there. They are literally men without countries now. How about we turn them lose in your back yard?

    Through their heinous actions they've removed themselves from the community of mankind. What to do with them now?
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  5. #345
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Yes, I know that the U.S. signed the Geneva Convention. It is my understanding that the Geneva Convention doesn't cover the terrorists / Islamic extremist militants. It does speaks to civilians and it speaks to captured uniformed military personnel. It even speaks to uniformed militia. I don't think it speaks to non-uniformed Unlawful combatant / Terrorist, although the closest I think, my best guess, might be spy, aren't they summarily executed?

    And what are you going to do with them? Their own countries of origin don't want them back. The countries they want to go to don't want them there. They are literally men without countries now. How about we turn them lose in your back yard?

    Through their heinous actions they've removed themselves from the community of mankind. What to do with them now?
    "The enemy combatant" is a recent invention of the Bush II administration used to justify violating the Geneva Conventions. A person is either a criminal or POW, there is no legitimate justification for this new category.

    "...Prior to 2008, the definition was: "Any person in an armed conflict who could be properly detained under the laws and customs of war." In the case of a civil war or an insurrection the term "enemy state" may be replaced by the more general term "Party to the conflict" (as described in the 1949 Geneva Conventions Article 3)...." ICRC commentary on Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949: Part I : General provisions: Conflicts no of an international character as cited by Wikipedia

  6. #346
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I knew it. Thanks for your honesty. What's good for the goose is not good for the gander.

    And your question posed to me makes zero sense unless your prove to me that waterboarding (or torture) causes less attacks on American soldiers.
    The cia released statements today that the enhanced interrogations worked and led to actionable intelligence.

    You. Did. Not. Answer. My. Question

  7. #347
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    "The enemy combatant" is a recent invention of the Bush II administration used to justify violating the Geneva Conventions. A person is either a criminal or POW, there is no legitimate justification for this new category.

    "...Prior to 2008, the definition was: "Any person in an armed conflict who could be properly detained under the laws and customs of war." In the case of a civil war or an insurrection the term "enemy state" may be replaced by the more general term "Party to the conflict" (as described in the 1949 Geneva Conventions Article 3)...." ICRC commentary on Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949: Part I : General provisions: Conflicts no of an international character as cited by Wikipedia
    OK, so let's say they are POWs then.
    Their next stop after being captured would be a POW camp.
    So that'd be Gitmo.
    POWs are detained until the war is over, right?
    Well, the war on terrorism is still on.
    So . . . . the POWs stay in the POW camp then?
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  8. #348
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Sometimes bad things need to happen to bad people. Waterboarding and sleep deprivation sound like good tools to use against the bad guys.
    Pretty small-minded, abandoning ethics, morality and rules of civilized behaviour and giving thugs the go-ahead to use brutal techniques that do not work for the sake of being seen to be tough on terror. The only thing torture produces is the satisfaction of the torturer. Your people. That, and permission.
    My dad used to caution me that I was, partly, known by the company I kept. Go stand over there beside China, North Korea, Nigeria, Kampuchea and the rest of your peers.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
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  9. #349
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Yes, I know that the U.S. signed the Geneva Convention. It is my understanding that the Geneva Convention doesn't cover the terrorists / Islamic extremist militants. It does speaks to civilians and it speaks to captured uniformed military personnel. It even speaks to uniformed militia. I don't think it speaks to non-uniformed Unlawful combatant / Terrorist, although the closest I think, my best guess, might be spy, aren't they summarily executed?

    And what are you going to do with them? Their own countries of origin don't want them back. The countries they want to go to don't want them there. They are literally men without countries now. How about we turn them lose in your back yard?

    Through their heinous actions they've removed themselves from the community of mankind. What to do with them now?
    Terrorists are called non-state actors, which is convenient for us because we get to invade the entire world without ever declaring war in order to get to these "terrorists".

    What we are supposed to do with them? I don't know... I guess just create prisons all over the place in grey zones to dump them in indefinitely? Seems to be the status quo these days.

    It doesn't matter if their own countries want them or not. They are citizens of somewhere, and somewhere should deal with them. But that's not the reason why we're detaining them. We deport other people's problem all the time, it's also our status quo. We're holding them because they know our dirty little secrets.

    All this legal minutiae is pointless. We should not be torturing anyone. It's against our stated principles as a country. The least we could do is hide it better. Our government has zero shame anymore... it all just hangs out.

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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Pretty small-minded, abandoning ethics, morality and rules of civilized behaviour and giving thugs the go-ahead to use brutal techniques that do not work for the sake of being seen to be tough on terror. The only thing torture produces is the satisfaction of the torturer. Your people. That, and permission.
    My dad used to caution me that I was, partly, known by the company I kept. Go stand over there beside China, North Korea, Nigeria, Kampuchea and the rest of your peers.
    Thugs are doing worse without our go ahead and have been for decades.

    It does work as reported by the cia today.

    Its only common sense. The left says "theyll say anything to make it stop"

    The reality is every source of info is cross checked. You never act on a single piece of intel. If i am waterboarding you and you tell me somethin i know is a lie, you will get it worse. The question is are you willing to roll that dice? I think not

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