View Poll Results: Should The Torture Report be Released Publicly?

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    69 62.16%
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Thread: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

  1. #311
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well the report actually has that information in it. It actually shows that the interrogation techniques were used since 2002...and the President wasn't even informed until 2006. it also states that the CIA actually lied or didn't answer questions specific to the interrogation techniques. When the President did know about it he didn't even tell Powell or Rumsfeld about it. See...that's why this report is useful. When there's no definitive version of events people can completely fabricate things out of no where...like this idea that Congress was informed.
    Factcheck.Org: Pelosi's Tortured Denials

    ...Speaker Pelosi said in February that she was "never" told that the CIA was using waterboarding in interrogations. Then in May she changed her story to say she was told, but still claimed it was not quite as early as the CIA said.

    On that point she’s contradicted, however, both by a CIA memo and by a Republican former congressman who got the same briefing she did. The current CIA director, a Democrat, says his agency’s story, though not infallible, is "the most thorough information we have."

    Prominent Republicans, including former Speaker Gingrich, are saying that Pelosi should step down because of this.

    Who’s right? It is clear that Pelosi has contradicted herself, and that she knew as early as 2003 that waterboarding was in use, long before she raised any public or private objection....

    Pelosi said unequivocally in February: "I can say flat out, they never told us that these enhancement interrogations were being used." In April, she said that "we were not told" about the program at any briefing.

    But a CIA memo released May 6 flatly contradicts those claims, stating that CIA personnel gave Pelosi "a description of the particular EITs [Enhanced Interrogation Techniques] that had been employed." That briefing was in September 2002. Pelosi herself now admits that an aide told her about the interrogation techniques in 2003, but she still maintains that the CIA didn’t tell her in 2002 that waterboarding had been used...
    Other congressmen in the room have written to say that they remember being briefed on EITs to include waterboarding in 2002:

    ...In the fall of 2002, while I was chairman of the House intelligence committee, senior members of Congress were briefed on the CIA's "High Value Terrorist Program," including the development of "enhanced interrogation techniques" and what those techniques were. This was not a one-time briefing but an ongoing subject with lots of back and forth between those members and the briefers.

    Today, I am slack-jawed to read that members claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as "waterboarding" were never mentioned. It must be hard for most Americans of common sense to imagine how a member of Congress can forget being told about the interrogations of Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed. In that case, though, perhaps it is not amnesia but political expedience.

    Let me be clear. It is my recollection that:

    -- The chairs and the ranking minority members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, known as the Gang of Four, were briefed that the CIA was holding and interrogating high-value terrorists.
    -- We understood what the CIA was doing.
    -- We gave the CIA our bipartisan support.
    -- We gave the CIA funding to carry out its activities.
    -- On a bipartisan basis, we asked if the CIA needed more support from Congress to carry out its mission against al-Qaeda....

    This report doesn't really include that much that is new.

  2. #312
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think the "Torture" is and was reprehensible. When you agree to torture, you are agreeing to have your own soldiers tortured, tit for tat, don't ya' know. It represents the low moral agenda that US policies have become under both Repubs and Dems. We've got a nice CORPORATE gov't that is real people because the SCOTUS says so. Don't live and breathe, don't feel pain, don't choke on smog, don't get cancer, are not limited by human frailities like death, and can be bankrupted to escape/minimize liability. Chaos, death, torture, terror, etc. are just side effects of that CORPORATE mantra; "War is good business, and business is good."
    I'd like for someone to tell me what enemy is NOT going to torture our soldiers regardless the reason? Who exactly follows the Geneva convention? [BTW: most of our military go through some sort of torture experience in order to know what might be coming]
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  3. #313
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    That, and in the modern day, thanks to cell phones, modern media, the internet, and modern explosives, a handful of men can bring a city to its knees, because they can do more damage than a battalion could have done in the 1800's. The very nature of war is changing - gone are the days when massed armies moved from point to point. Gone are the days of great battles in the countryside.

    Everyone who thinks that a man must wear a uniform in order to be a soldier is living in the past. That time is gone.
    Indeed. The Geneva conventions have a clear gap in them, as it didn't foresee that type of warfare at the time that it was drafted and agreed to. And the UN, and international agreements haven't kept up nor even started to catch up. These Unlawful combatant/Terrorist fall through the cracks.

    This is what drove the Bush administration to create Gitmo, and hold them there. This is also why Obama couldn't close Gitmo when and how it wanted to.

    Gitmo is an imperfect solution for an imperfect world for Unlawful combatant/Terrorist that aren't covered in any other way.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  4. #314
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Actually, no. The "Leftists" have had the opportunity but threw the opportunity under the bus when Pelosi said "impeachment is off the table". The CIA, among others, operates with almost complete immunity. That concerns me.

    At this point in the political game no matter what is reported to the public about torture - and it won't be much of anything - there will be NO clear line of responsibility for any wrong doing or the authorization or approval or knowledge of any wrong doing. "Mr. Transparency" hasn't been transparent and he isn't going to start now. We have no reason whatsoever to expect a conservative government to be transparent. Indeed, we don't really hear that from conservatives.

    What bothers me most is that more and more Americans seem to support incremental fascism.

    We have reached a point in America where what we really know about the government is what the government tells us. That should bother every American, though unfortunately it does not. As a result, for all we know, we have a government that creates and supports the idea of a big boogie man that must be dealt with. And to deal with that boogie man Americans must trust the government, who in turn and in bits and pieces tells Americans only what it says Americans need to know. Later the government says, "We need to take away some of your freedom to protect you. Trust us." Later still we are told that more freedom needs to be given up because fighting the boogey man is really hard. "Trust us more, we will keep you safe."

    Later yet, the world discovers via WikiLeaks and Julian Assange that maybe Americans shouldn't trust their government. But many Americans are very scared and as Washington cranks up its propaganda machine to use on the American people (now legal, signed into law by Obama, by the way) are told over and over and over and over that Assange is not to be trusted. "His truth hurts America. He is a serial rapist. Trust us, we know. We are keeping you safe." And thus American fascism continue to grow inch by inch, lie by lie, freedoms lost bit by bit. Americans for the most part don't listen to Assange. They've been told not to.

    Next we have Snowden reveal to us that the government has unquestionably lied its ass off to the American people. The government has taken liberties where it said it would not. The government has taken liberties where it says it did not. We discover, in fact, that what Snowden bravely exposed is correct. Our government has not been telling us the truth. Our government has lied to us - a lot. Our basic rights have been abused and shattered. Responding to Snowden's revelations the government countered with massive propaganda and even though we know Snowden was correct, the American masses listened to the government's never ending, "But we are spying on you for you. Yes, we made a mistake, but we didn't mean to. We won't do it anymore. Promise. Besides we only do it to protect you from the boogie man we keep telling you about. Trust us". Americans are told to hate Snowden, so Americans hate Snowden. And fascism creeps deeper into America as Americans do what they are told.

    What Americans really know about their government is what their government tells them. On a continuum we are either moving closer to the Constitution or further away from it.
    I haven't trusted the FedGov since I became aware at 16.

    Freedom has been greatly diminished since the Civil war. Just after the turn of the century, freedom has turned to a form of slavery.

    What we have now is the tyranny of a soon-to-be totalitarian police state.

    Revelation to follow.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  5. #315
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The right threw itself under the bus when it decided to abandon American and international principals and engage in the torture of a lot of people, some of whom were guilty of nothing.

    I continue to believe that eventually some of those torturers will pay for their crimes.
    As far as I heard, there were 3 prisoners at GITMO who were water boarded. The information derived from those individuals eventually led to the death of Bin Laden.

    I don't have a problem with that.

    What's more insidious is the fact that much worse goes on everyday around the world and all we hear is how much America {that's us} sucks.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  6. #316
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Yeah, what a bunch of snitches.
    Mostly gutless windbags pretending to be thoughtful. [on both sides]
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  7. #317
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.

    Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.

    The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.

    What say ye?
    The Government should be as transparent as possible, so yes. If things like this are too sensitive to release, then the government probably shouldnt have done it in the first place, but since they did, we can use accurate info to hold people accountable and discourage future occurrence of bad policy.

  8. #318
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    The Government should be as transparent as possible, so yes. If things like this are too sensitive to release, then the government probably shouldnt have done it in the first place, but since they did, we can use accurate info to hold people accountable and discourage future occurrence of bad policy.
    Heya TM. Do you think the Democrats should have talked to witnesses to have accurate information first before coming out with a report wherein they were biased and most knew so?

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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya TM. Do you think the Democrats should have talked to witnesses to have accurate information first before coming out with a report wherein they were biased and most knew so?
    There is not enough information to say whether this report is biased or not, and if so, how biased. If there is a taint of bias, we need to start releasing internal documents from whatever departments were involved and get the full story, and if a few careers are ruined or people go to jail, then good they shouldnt have been involved in the first place. This is not a political matter to me, this is a human rights matter. I consider that to be far more fundamental than political games.

  10. #320
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya TM. Do you think the Democrats should have talked to witnesses to have accurate information first before coming out with a report wherein they were biased and most knew so?
    If you will read the report and keep in mind that this is just 500 of the 6500 pages and has been redacted by the CIA, the Executive Branch, and who knows who else. The bad part has not been released.

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