View Poll Results: Should The Torture Report be Released Publicly?

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    69 62.16%
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Thread: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

  1. #301
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So no deaths then?


    Gul Rahman, a suspected extremist, got his first taste of enhanced interrogation in late 2002 with two days of sleep deprivation, total darkness, isolation and "rough treatment." Rahman was then shackled to a wall in his cell, forced to rest on a bare concrete floor in only a sweatshirt. The next day he was dead. A CIA review and autopsy found he died of hypothermia.

    Justice Department investigations into that and another death of a CIA detainee resulted in no charges....snip~

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...rrogation.html

  2. #302
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yeah and I don't think Washington's thoughts included.....what is a terrorist.

    The report is out.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1064072084
    That, and in the modern day, thanks to cell phones, modern media, the internet, and modern explosives, a handful of men can bring a city to its knees, because they can do more damage than a battalion could have done in the 1800's. The very nature of war is changing - gone are the days when massed armies moved from point to point. Gone are the days of great battles in the countryside.

    Everyone who thinks that a man must wear a uniform in order to be a soldier is living in the past. That time is gone.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #303
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    the stress positions were egregious -at least enough so the tapes were destroyed.

    Enhanced interrogation techniques - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    what I'm wondering is if we got anything out of this in terms of Intel -there are conflicting reports as this is now a partisan "issue"

    I read one of the detainees , or black prisoners gave up the idea that bin Laden used a courier, and that was instrumental in finding and killing him.
    I've heard references to "thwarting plots", but nothing concrete.

    If I had to bottom line it all, i'd say it was worth it if we saved other's lives - the other question is would there have been other means to do so.

    The CIA hacking into the Senate computers provided by the CIA at the Hart office building is just as bad a Constitutional "crime" ( abuse)
    in terms of /separation of powers/oversight.
    I believe that much of that is still held in secret due to national security. However, we do have this:

    First, its claim that the CIA’s interrogation program was ineffective in producing intelligence that helped us disrupt, capture, or kill terrorists is just not accurate. The program was invaluable in three critical ways:

    • It led to the capture of senior al Qaeda operatives, thereby removing them from the battlefield.
    • It led to the disruption of terrorist plots and prevented mass casualty attacks, saving American and Allied lives.
    • It added enormously to what we knew about al Qaeda as an organization and therefore informed our approaches on how best to attack, thwart and degrade it.

    A powerful example of the interrogation program’s importance is the information obtained from Abu Zubaydah, a senior al Qaeda operative, and from Khalid Sheikh Muhammed, known as KSM, the 9/11 mastermind. We are convinced that both would not have talked absent the interrogation program.

    Information provided by Zubaydah through the interrogation program led to the capture in 2002 of KSM associate and post-9/11 plotter Ramzi Bin al-Shibh. Information from both Zubaydah and al-Shibh led us to KSM. KSM then led us to Riduan Isamuddin, aka Hambali, East Asia’s chief al Qaeda ally and the perpetrator of the 2002 Bali bombing in Indonesia—in which more than 200 people perished.

    The removal of these senior al Qaeda operatives saved thousands of lives because it ended their plotting. KSM, alone, was working on multiple plots when he was captured.

    Here’s an example of how the interrogation program actually worked to disrupt terrorist plotting. Without revealing to KSM that Hambali had been captured, we asked him who might take over in the event that Hambali was no longer around. KSM pointed to Hambali’s brother Rusman Gunawan. We then found Gunawan, and information from him resulted in the takedown of a 17-member Southeast Asian cell that Gunawan had recruited for a “second wave,” 9/11-style attack on the U.S. West Coast, in all likelihood using aircraft again to attack buildings. Had that attack occurred, the nightmare of 9/11 would have been repeated.

    Once they had become compliant due to the interrogation program, both Abu Zubaydah and KSM turned out to be invaluable sources on the al Qaeda organization. We went back to them multiple times to gain insight into the group. More than one quarter of the nearly 1,700 footnotes in the highly regarded 9/11 Commission Report in 2004 and a significant share of the intelligence in the 2007 National Intelligence Estimate on al Qaeda came from detainees in the program, in particular Zubaydah and KSM.

    The majority on the Senate Intelligence Committee further claims that the takedown of bin Laden was not facilitated by information from the interrogation program. They are wrong. There is no doubt that information provided by the totality of detainees in CIA custody, those who were subjected to interrogation and those who were not, was essential to bringing bin Laden to justice. The CIA never would have focused on the individual who turned out to be bin Laden’s personal courier without the detention and interrogation program.
    Ex-CIA Directors: Interrogations Saved Lives - WSJ
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  4. #304
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    I believe that much of that is still held in secret due to national security. However, we do have this:

    Ex-CIA Directors: Interrogations Saved Lives - WSJ
    very useful.
    I had thought this report was going to be more objective
    The country and the CIA would have benefited from a more balanced study of these programs and a corresponding set of recommendations. The committee’s report is not that study. It offers not a single recommendation.

    Our view on this is shared by the CIA and the Senate Intelligence Committee’s Republican minority, both of which are releasing rebuttals to the majority’s report. Both critiques are clear-eyed, fact-based assessments that challenge the majority’s contentions in a nonpartisan way
    Ex-CIA Directors: Interrogations Saved Lives - WSJ
    Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ

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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    That, and in the modern day, thanks to cell phones, modern media, the internet, and modern explosives, a handful of men can bring a city to its knees, because they can do more damage than a battalion could have done in the 1800's. The very nature of war is changing - gone are the days when massed armies moved from point to point. Gone are the days of great battles in the countryside.

    Everyone who thinks that a man must wear a uniform in order to be a soldier is living in the past. That time is gone.
    Hence the terminology.....Unlawful combatant/Terrorist.

  6. #306
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Ikari. I don't think to many of the people were even focused on this with all the protests taking place. This is all about going after the CIA which BO and his team has been shining that Bad light down on them ever since Benghazi and the CIA blaming the State Dept. Which State was doing work for BO, and some that they shouldn't have been.

    This report could have been dealt with in several ways. Which would give overcite. Without the Public needing to know any specific details. Yet still being told what came from the findings.
    I buy that Obama is using this as political camouflage of sorts, same as all the other Republocrats would. Yet the damage done by secrets of the government far outweighs the potential risk by the populace being made aware of the government's actual actions and desires.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #307
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Hence the terminology.....Unlawful combatant/Terrorist.
    As defined as those who are living in the past...who forget that for most of human history, uniforms were worn only by the elite or well-to-do.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I buy that Obama is using this as political camouflage of sorts, same as all the other Republocrats would. Yet the damage done by secrets of the government far outweighs the potential risk by the populace being made aware of the government's actual actions and desires.

    This damage will affect others outside our own people. It will even affect our intel networks going forward. Put us even more behind the 8 ball now.

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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    This damage will affect others outside our own people. It will even affect our intel networks going forward. Put us even more behind the 8 ball now.
    The 8 ball we're behind isn't terrorist threat. It's government authoritarianism and tyranny. This announcement will likely do nothing for or against that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The 8 ball we're behind isn't terrorist threat. It's government authoritarianism and tyranny. This announcement will likely do nothing for or against that.
    Our intel people are when it comes to dealing with those that are seeking to do us harm. As we have been shown under BO and his team.

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