View Poll Results: Should The Torture Report be Released Publicly?

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    69 62.16%
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    35 31.53%
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    7 6.31%
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Thread: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Jack Bauer is my hero.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  2. #102
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    There were "deaths" associated with this torture and this report allegedly acknowledges that. Ergo, what you say is either from lack of information or ignorance or lying. I can't tell which. I am, like beaudreaux, a graduate of E & E, but it's not the same as this report will acknowledge. Why do you think they would be fightning it if it was just about lightweight torture. Ask yourself why the CIA had these people tortured at "black sites" in foreign countries, if it is so harmless?
    The alleged atrocities committed by the US in this report allegedly haven't been disclosed yet because the report, allegedly, hasn't been released yet.

    I may be mistaken but I haven't heard of any deaths directly related to "enhanced interrogation" in the past 6 years and I suspect that if the Democrats DID have such information we'd have heard it well before now.

    Now, that being said, if someone had been renditioned to one of these "black sites" and accidentally got hit by a bus during an escape attempt well, it's a tough world out there some days.

  3. #103
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    Apparently, according to some of us, the answer is yes.
    Really..the Brits had to report the US army for savagery..torturing victims...they felt sick..from what I can see..It was dominance..always easy when you got big vicious dogs...a platoon to help you...and a sadistic personality..

  4. #104
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Diane Feinstein and the Democrats are releasing the Torture Report this week, they are saying. They meaning the Demos, Feinstein, and the MS Media.

    Foreign governments and U.S. intelligence agencies are predicting that the release of a Senate report examining the use of torture by the CIA will cause "violence and deaths" abroad. BO is backing the release of this report. Since he came out and stated we tortured some folks. Then other countries Intel services stated this will cause more violence and death to take place. This was all reported back to BO. Yet he and the Democrats are all for it.

    The Republicans are disputing this report and will come out with their own report. Feinstein said she would go ahead with the release. Even after Kerry asked her to hold off with the timing.

    What say ye?


    The United States is a Democracy. She has gone to war, invading other countries in defense of "freedoms" in the belief you have to fight them "there" so you don't have to fight them "here", while the two are increasingly one and the same in a global world.

    By keeping secret the activities, you allow any corruption to continue. And you suppress an open and democratic discussion of those activities.

    IF, things are so shaky that the release of a report the details of which the "enemies" already know is going to place lives at risk, then indeed we need to have a discussion about whether torture is working, or simply creating four or five for everyone killed.

    If things are so shaky, then the nation needs to have a debate as to why? After a decade and a half of uninterrupted warfare, drone bombings, torture, rendition and spying, then the debate must be held whether this is the right approach.

    If things are that shaky still, a few dozen heads need to roll "here", pardon the expression in light of the new, far more horrible practices of ISIS.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

  5. #105
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    A good day to you CJ. I am most certainly painting with a broader brush in my statement than I would apply if held to specifics. I am always suspect of unaccountable government power, and that would apply to the military as well. However, for clarification, "leave it to experts" to me include considerations for accountability, propriety, and other reasonable/rational considerations.

    I think there is a fine line between the need to know, and the need to not know.

    What I do know is the line facing the need to know usually ends up being a few steps behind where we end up standing. IMO, more effect can be generated from what our detractors think we will do, than what they learn we will do.
    I generally agree if the expertise we're talking about is that held by those in the military and not those in the political realm that try to guide/rule them. More and more it seems, the political side is getting too involved in the operational side of the military, particularly in the new reality of our "war on terrorism". Because of that, because Obama as an example seems to be knee deep in micromanaging the military, according to the last three Defense Secretaries, I'd be in favour of all the politics being totally transparent and out in the open. This is why I would favour disclosing the "political" investigations, from both sides of the aisle, and letting the average citizen see what's going on. No matter which side is doing the meddling, the public should know.

    As for what the military and associated agencies do in practice, I'm far less interested in knowing. War is ugly and not for the timid or weak of stomach. If we're going to be engaged in war, I'm all for letting those with the expertise in waging war do what needs to be done - as you say, get results. It's the politics I'm concerned about.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  6. #106
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    "Maher Arar (Arabic: ماهر عرار) (born 1970) is a telecommunications engineer with dual Syrian and Canadian citizenship who has resided in Canada since 1987. Arar's story is frequently referred to as "extraordinary rendition" but the US government insisted it was a case of deportation.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

    Arar was detained during a layover at John F. Kennedy International Airport in September 2002 on his way home to Canada from a family vacation in Tunis.[6] He was held without charges in solitary confinement in the United States for nearly two weeks, questioned, and denied meaningful access to a lawyer.[6] The US government suspected him of being a member of Al Qaeda and deported him, not to Canada, his current home and the passport on which he was travelling, but to Syria, even though its government is known to use torture.[7] He was detained in Syria for almost a year, during which time he was tortured, according to the findings of a commission of inquiry ordered by the Canadian government, until his release to Canada. The Syrian government later stated that Arar was "completely innocent."[8][9] A Canadian commission publicly cleared Arar of any links to terrorism, and the government of Canada later settled out of court with Arar. He received C$10.5 million and Prime Minister Stephen Harper formally apologized to Arar for Canada's role in his "terrible ordeal"..."


    Now you can't claim ignorance.
    Who tortured Arar? That's a pretty significant FAIL there partner.

  7. #107
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    Yes, it does.
    I saw a news blurb yesterday that a couple of detainees were being released after 12 years.
    I've heard for years that Guantanamo holds the worst of the worst terrorists.
    These alleged terrorists were held, never charged then released after TWELVE YEARS.
    Several detainees from Guantanamo have been accepted, as refugees, by the government in Uruguay. I'm not sure how that works or how wise it is, but that's the plan.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #108
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    And that's what you think this is about? Those few times that a literal bomb was ticking and they waterboarded a deactivation code out of him? Come on.

    They use torture because they find it convenient and have zero respect for basic human rights.
    Well, thank goodness an objective mind has solved the case.

    My turn. I think they have remarkable respect for human rights and use whatever means necessary to ensure people are protected from those who seek to eliminate their right to exist in the greatest number possible.

  9. #109
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    That's a good question. I don't really know how China does it. Perhaps projecting a message that you don't want to mess with them because they don't care about human rights, and perhaps also they don't have a problem selling weapons?
    Yeah, I think China just pays the monetary price, no matter how high.
    I would also opine that our endless quest to keep oil supplies moving is only marginally influenced by our human rights concerns.


    I do know we have allies who depend on ME oil, and we aren't going to let that supply be dominated by lunatics. IMO, that's just never going to happen. The modern world is not going to starve while respecting the boarders of another country. Never happened in human history.
    Too many of our allies in the oil consuming nations, let America do the heavy lifting.....China included.
    Military excursions are so costly, in blood and treasure , it would be cheaper for the USA to pay the higher price per bbl. that MIGHT result from our non-intervention.
    No matter how cynical I become toward politicians, it's never enough.

  10. #110
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    Re: Should the Report on Torture Be Released Publicly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Every act of torture we comit undermines our position on the world stage.
    Then there is the point of contention that leaves all wondering.....Right?

    That Need 2 Know Basis. So to speak.

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