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Is America the greatest nation on earth?

Is America the greatest country on earth?

  • Yes

    Votes: 45 45.9%
  • No

    Votes: 53 54.1%

  • Total voters
    98
the lesson from this-start your own business and become a CEO rather than whining about being an employee
I will start a coop thank you very much.

Your basically saying "the lesson from this is if their are evil bastards out their screwing everybody, join em"
 
No its a losing situation for the workers. They can be laid off, and have no power in where the business goes. It results in a system where the workers are slaves to their wages, and allows the opulently wealthy to garner the vast majority of the resources. Also the owners almost always wind up with a disproportionately large amount of the income, and the workers with a very small amount.

This system also allows the owners to live like kings with doing little to no work, and in allot of cases to never have to do any work because they inherit their wealth.

This is extremely unfair to the working class. It can be seen throughout society. Just look at apple. They are dodging the vast majority of their taxes, giving suppliers employees diseases like leukemia, and their executive teams make 95000 more than the people hat actually make their products.



The average CEO in america makes 354 times more than the average employee, generally for much less work. This is far from a "win win" for the working class, and will almost always be how capitalism winds up, that is, oligarchy.


maybe, maybe not

i guess it depends on who you are, and what skills you have

Lets take the New England Patriots football team as an example

Do you think the fans spend all the money, go to the games, and make the owner all that money if Belichick and Brady arent on the payroll?

So two people can negotiate monstrous contracts because of their skills

And the other people involved with the team also earn more, because they make the "team" better

The Kraft family who owns the teams would probably love to pay them less, but then does their revenue also go down?

The workers are not always the ones with the short end of the stick

Those with superior skills, or skills that the average person doesnt have, can write their own ticket most of the time

I am in the top 2% paid of everyone on my profession around the country

Why....because i am one of the best.....i have extra skills most dont bring to the table

And i make the company i work for, even more profitable than they were

Now if all you can do is work a register, or load a box......or some other mundane task.....yes, your wages will be lower

And your job security is low at best.......

What that tells me is those people need to learn additional skills, and better prepare themselves for todays world economy
 
maybe, maybe not

i guess it depends on who you are, and what skills you have

Lets take the New England Patriots football team as an example

Do you think the fans spend all the money, go to the games, and make the owner all that money if Belichick and Brady arent on the payroll?

So two people can negotiate monstrous contracts because of their skills

And the other people involved with the team also earn more, because they make the "team" better

The Kraft family who owns the teams would probably love to pay them less, but then does their revenue also go down?

The workers are not always the ones with the short end of the stick

Those with superior skills, or skills that the average person doesnt have, can write their own ticket most of the time

I am in the top 2% paid of everyone on my profession around the country

Why....because i am one of the best.....i have extra skills most dont bring to the table

And i make the company i work for, even more profitable than they were

Now if all you can do is work a register, or load a box......or some other mundane task.....yes, your wages will be lower

And your job security is low at best.......

What that tells me is those people need to learn additional skills, and better prepare themselves for todays world economy
Even if that's true about you and tom Brady (which are exceptional circumstances) its irrelevant. What's relevant is that its still unfair to both of you for others to effectively own your work, not to mention your less skilled piers. In the NFL the league office takes in like 60% of the income without really doing anything, and most NFL players think they do a crappy job at best. So in reality, it actually is unfair to the NFL players, who could and would make even more if they owned and controlled the league along with those that run concessions and take tickets and so on.

Again it makes no sense to have these people at the top, who do little to nothing, and get paid the most for it. It would be a much better system if the people that make the business tick owned the business, or in certain specific instances the consumer (like green bay I'm all for that, but their is a reason the NFL made it so no one else can do that) owns it.

Also that's your opinion you being their adds more value, what really matters is the opinions of those you work with, not the opinion of some idiot CEO that has never done any of the jobs he/she is hiring for.
 
Even if that's true about you and tom Brady (which are exceptional circumstances) its irrelevant. What's relevant is that its still unfair to both of you for others to effectively own your work, not to mention your less skilled piers. In the NFL the league office takes in like 60% of the income without really doing anything, and most NFL players think they do a crappy job at best. So in reality, it actually is unfair to the NFL players, who could and would make even more if they owned and controlled the league along with those that run concessions and take tickets and so on.

Again it makes no sense to have these people at the top, who do little to nothing, and get paid the most for it. It would be a much better system if the people that make the business tick owned the business, or in certain specific instances the consumer (like green bay I'm all for that, but their is a reason the NFL made it so no one else can do that) owns it.

Also that's your opinion you being their adds more value, what really matters is the opinions of those you work with, not the opinion of some idiot CEO that has never done any of the jobs he/she is hiring for.


you seem to think ownership does nothing.....

you couldnt be further from the truth

but....i can see when i am wasting my time ....and this is one of them

the people that work for me dont control my pay.....ownership does

i control their pay.......

and green bay sells shares, but those shareholders have ZERO say in running the franchise (you know that right?)

and many have tried to "compete" with the NFL with a new league, new rules, new ownership......it failed every time

i guess the owners of the NFL must have been doing "something" right after all

and lastly.....ask any NFL player if they want to switch jobs with someone in the real world......the answer would be NO 100/100 times

so i guess the players who sign collective bargaining rights know what they are getting into.......

in ending....remember the one final rule......the golden one

he who has the gold, makes the rules
 
you seem to think ownership does nothing.....

you couldnt be further from the truth

but....i can see when i am wasting my time ....and this is one of them

the people that work for me dont control my pay.....ownership does

i control their pay.......

and green bay sells shares, but those shareholders have ZERO say in running the franchise (you know that right?)

and many have tried to "compete" with the NFL with a new league, new rules, new ownership......it failed every time

i guess the owners of the NFL must have been doing "something" right after all

and lastly.....ask any NFL player if they want to switch jobs with someone in the real world......the answer would be NO 100/100 times

so i guess the players who sign collective bargaining rights know what they are getting into.......

in ending....remember the one final rule......the golden one

he who has the gold, makes the rules

That's a bs rule spouted by capitalist oligarchs.

Ownership does do nothing. It sits on its butt and skims the cream off the top, not to mention delving into the milk to screw the employees.

And yes I do realize that, its far from a perfect system in green bay, but is much better than the alternatives in the league.

Pay should be split evenly according to how productive you are. Ownership does nothing, and therefore has no right to pay.

The NFL has a monopoly. For the love of god they are specifically mentioned in tax code... How do you compete with that?

Yes they are making money hand over fist and screwing their employees in the process.

I never said or implied the players would change, that would seem to be very irrelevant to the discussion.

Lastly when the gold is ill gotten through exploiting workers, (which it almost always is) and especially when its handed down to people through inheritance they never worked for, those people have no right to make any rules.

Your post just shows a greedy capitalist mentality to work. Instead of a logical and fair one.
 
Those with superior skills, or skills that the average person doesnt have, can write their own ticket most of the time

I am in the top 2% paid of everyone on my profession around the country

Why....because i am one of the best.....i have extra skills most dont bring to the table

And i make the company i work for, even more profitable than they were

Now if all you can do is work a register, or load a box......or some other mundane task.....yes, your wages will be lower

And your job security is low at best.......

What that tells me is those people need to learn additional skills, and better prepare themselves for todays world economy

Well, if one were to be paid for one's skill at self-deprecation and understated modesty, you should certainly be amongst the top earners in the country. Mastery of the written word - perhaps less so. :)

However, self-evident though your advice may appear, it is a bit like telling a poverty stricken family that what they need is more money. Basically, an accurate statement of fact, but of little practical utility. The issue confronting all our societies is that of social justice, which includes the provision of opportunities for everyone, particularly those of allegedly 'lesser' abilities.
 
Well, if one were to be paid for one's skill at self-deprecation and understated modesty, you should certainly be amongst the top earners in the country. Mastery of the written word - perhaps less so. :)

However, self-evident though your advice may appear, it is a bit like telling a poverty stricken family that what they need is more money. Basically, an accurate statement of fact, but of little practical utility. The issue confronting all our societies is that of social justice, which includes the provision of opportunities for everyone, particularly those of allegedly 'lesser' abilities.


what you guys fail to understand, or refuse to comprehend is that everyone, repeat EVERYONE has opportunities

we are all born with some traits, and earn other skills along the way

some people take advantage of those opportunities......others throw them away

you know it...i know it....everyone knows it

not everyone will have a 140 iq....or the ability to be a doctor

but everyone has some talents/skills.....and the ability to learn others

the armed forces used to administer something called the asvab test (? think that was the name)....basically designed to tell where your best traits/skills were

used it to determine what technical/training field they would assign you to

when i took mine, i aced three sections of it.....and scored almost a zero on the 4th part (mechanical aptitude)

was told i could have any job i wanted that didnt have a wrench as a tool

no matter how hard i try...i could never be a mechanic....my mind doesnt work that way

we all have our good skills, and our bad ones.......

some people take advantage of what they were given......others do not

but everyone has an opportunity.....i have seen too many rags to riches stories unfold around me

you can blame people not succeeding on whatever you want......

other than those who are truly handicapped (physically or mentally) mostly the failures can be blamed on the individuals themselves

if that seems harsh...okay.....maybe it is

my expectations for people are always higher than they expect for themselves

one of the reasons i am successful in what i do
 
what you guys fail to understand, or refuse to comprehend is that everyone, repeat EVERYONE has opportunities

we are all born with some traits, and earn other skills along the way

some people take advantage of those opportunities......others throw them away

you know it...i know it....everyone knows it

not everyone will have a 140 iq....or the ability to be a doctor

but everyone has some talents/skills.....and the ability to learn others

the armed forces used to administer something called the asvab test (? think that was the name)....basically designed to tell where your best traits/skills were

used it to determine what technical/training field they would assign you to

when i took mine, i aced three sections of it.....and scored almost a zero on the 4th part (mechanical aptitude)

was told i could have any job i wanted that didnt have a wrench as a tool

no matter how hard i try...i could never be a mechanic....my mind doesnt work that way

we all have our good skills, and our bad ones.......

some people take advantage of what they were given......others do not

but everyone has an opportunity.....i have seen too many rags to riches stories unfold around me

you can blame people not succeeding on whatever you want......

other than those who are truly handicapped (physically or mentally) mostly the failures can be blamed on the individuals themselves

if that seems harsh...okay.....maybe it is

my expectations for people are always higher than they expect for themselves

one of the reasons i am successful in what i do
What a crock...

So your saying someone raised in the suburbs, with supportive parents, that goes to suburban school, has the same opportunities as someone raised in the city, with crack heads for parents, and goes to one of the worst schools in America? I think not...

I'd you have seen soooooo many rags to riches story's, you probably don't know what rags are in the first place...
 
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what you guys fail to understand, or refuse to comprehend is that everyone, repeat EVERYONE has opportunities

we are all born with some traits, and earn other skills along the way

some people take advantage of those opportunities......others throw them away

you know it...i know it....everyone knows it

not everyone will have a 140 iq....or the ability to be a doctor

but everyone has some talents/skills.....and the ability to learn others

the armed forces used to administer something called the asvab test (? think that was the name)....basically designed to tell where your best traits/skills were

used it to determine what technical/training field they would assign you to

when i took mine, i aced three sections of it.....and scored almost a zero on the 4th part (mechanical aptitude)

was told i could have any job i wanted that didnt have a wrench as a tool

no matter how hard i try...i could never be a mechanic....my mind doesnt work that way

we all have our good skills, and our bad ones.......

some people take advantage of what they were given......others do not

but everyone has an opportunity.....i have seen too many rags to riches stories unfold around me

you can blame people not succeeding on whatever you want......

other than those who are truly handicapped (physically or mentally) mostly the failures can be blamed on the individuals themselves

if that seems harsh...okay.....maybe it is

my expectations for people are always higher than they expect for themselves

one of the reasons i am successful in what i do

wow you live in a dream world. I wish I could be an American.
 
What a crock...

So your saying someone raised in the suburbs, with supportive parents, that goes to suburban school, has the same opportunities as someone raised in the city, with crack heads for parents, and goes to one of the worst schools in America? I think not...

I'd you have seen soooooo many rags to riches story's, you probably don't know what rags are in the first place...


where did i say the "same" opportunities

who told you life was fair?

whoever it was, sold you a real lost cause

i see people for what they can become

you seem to see victims of circumstances

are those two kids playing on an equal field.....no

i never said they were.....

but can both make it out, and succeed anyway......you bet

i volunteer at a homeless shelter......and i have seen what bad parents/bad upbringing can do to a child

you see that kid as a victim.......i see a kid who can go places......and i try to help them get there

we see life through different lenses.......my lens shows a world of possibilities

yours shows you lost causes.......
 
where did i say the "same" opportunities

who told you life was fair?

whoever it was, sold you a real lost cause

i see people for what they can become

you seem to see victims of circumstances

are those two kids playing on an equal field.....no

i never said they were.....

but can both make it out, and succeed anyway......you bet

i volunteer at a homeless shelter......and i have seen what bad parents/bad upbringing can do to a child

you see that kid as a victim.......i see a kid who can go places......and i try to help them get there

we see life through different lenses.......my lens shows a world of possibilities

yours shows you lost causes.......
No you see a non existent lala land.

I see reality.

Fortunately it does not need to be so, unfortunately it is.
 
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