View Poll Results: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

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  • Yes for violent and or lethal force if the non-violent suspect is not cooperating.

    2 4.76%
  • Yes for violent force if the non-violent suspect is not cooperating.

    5 11.90%
  • No regardless if the non-violent suspect is or isn't cooperating.

    29 69.05%
  • Other

    4 9.52%
  • Maybe/I do not know.

    2 4.76%
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Thread: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

  1. #1
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    Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    When I say violent or lethal force I mean chocking, punching,hitting someone with a baton, slamming someone to the ground,shooting and etc. This does not include other things at might hurt like sticking handcuffs on someone,grabbing suspect by the hands arms or some other body part, or putting the suspect's hands behind their back in order to restrain and or put handcuffs on the suspect.

    When I say non-violent suspect I mean someone who is not punching,jabbing,brandishing a weapon, stabbing,hitting or kicking anyone.Basically someone is not physically hurting anyone. This person may be cooperating with police or he may be walking away,trying to get someone off of him.


    Yes for violent and or lethal force if the non-violent suspect is not cooperating.
    Yes for violent force if the non-violent suspect is not cooperating.
    No regardless if the non-violent suspect is or isn't cooperating.
    Other
    Maybe/I do not know.

    I think most reasonable people agree that if a suspect is assaulting and or threatening the law enforcement officer's life then that officer should be allowed to use violent force or even lethal force to detain and or take down a suspect. However when it comes to non-violent suspects that might be a different story. Some people might argue that if you do not do what a police officer says then he can use what ever force he wants. While others will say no if the suspect is not trying to harm you or anyone else then you have no right to hurt that suspect. I want to lean towards no regardless of the non-violent suspect is or isn't cooperating.But there might be a circumstance that I am not aware of yet where it is necessary for a office to use violent force to detain a suspect.
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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Depends on how you define "violent" no as to the lethal part, though it does happen.

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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Violent and lethal are on the same slippery slope. Punching a guy can be lethal.
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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Yes, if necessary. It should be based on the situation though. Enough force to subdue the person. It is never as simple as, "well he wasn't putting up a fight, he wasn't hurting anyone". Not cooperating with the police when they are trying to arrest or even detain you requires the police act on that. Some police do apply too much force for particular situations, but the majority are not. Those police who do apply excessive force should be punished. But it has to be based on the case and based on the actual information of the case, not speculation or assumptions.

    Lethal force should be applied only when there is an actual threat. However, I believe some people are wrongfully trying to attach lethal force to forces that are not normally lethal. Other circumstances are what led to the death in pretty much all those cases. That doesn't mean that police should not be mindful of those other circumstances or their potential. It means that it is wrong to claim that something is lethal force just because it contributed to or even ended in a death because of how such force was used.

    Pretty much any force can be lethal, but lethal force is going to be lethal the vast majority of the time it is used, not just in rare instances.
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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes, if necessary. It should be based on the situation though. Enough force to subdue the person. It is never as simple as, "well he wasn't putting up a fight, he wasn't hurting anyone". Not cooperating with the police when they are trying to arrest or even detain you requires the police act on that. Some police do apply too much force for particular situations, but the majority are not. Those police who do apply excessive force should be punished. But it has to be based on the case and based on the actual information of the case, not speculation or assumptions.

    Lethal force should be applied only when there is an actual threat. However, I believe some people are wrongfully trying to attach lethal force to forces that are not normally lethal. Other circumstances are what led to the death in pretty much all those cases. That doesn't mean that police should not be mindful of those other circumstances or their potential. It means that it is wrong to claim that something is lethal force just because it contributed to or even ended in a death because of how such force was used.

    Pretty much any force can be lethal, but lethal force is going to be lethal the vast majority of the time it is used, not just in rare instances.
    Pretty much this. Downside is that we as a society say we hold rogue cops accountable, but we actually rarely do.
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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Everyone wants to side with the police in issues like this until its them. What is it that you feel, when a cop turns on her lights behind you? Isn't it fear?

    Why are we afraid of public servants? Is it because they've gotten out of hand? They beat up people for no reason? they shoot unarmed people dead instead of using their utility belt full of non-lethal gadgets??

    No, not all cops are bad or misuse their misguided "authority" (NULL), but when we let even one of them get away with hurting, yes, even a criminal, then we give them permission to shoot at our kids when they disagree with the cops.
    to beat up our parents when they want to know why they are being stopped/detained.
    to steal money from our fellow citizens without regard to their fourth amendment rights.

    Can you seriously back a police state? What about when it shows up at your door?

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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Pretty much this. Downside is that we as a society say we hold rogue cops accountable, but we actually rarely do.
    When it is blatant, we do. But in many cases it becomes a double edged sword. It leads to cops questioning their level of force to an extent that puts them and possibly the public at risk when someone isn't subdued that should have been because the officer is more worried about how much force is "proper" and not going to potentially get them brought up on charges of murder because someone died due to a combination of circumstances that included their use of force.
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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dw23 View Post
    Everyone wants to side with the police in issues like this until its them. What is it that you feel, when a cop turns on her lights behind you? Isn't it fear?

    Why are we afraid of public servants? Is it because they've gotten out of hand? They beat up people for no reason? they shoot unarmed people dead instead of using their utility belt full of non-lethal gadgets??

    No, not all cops are bad or misuse their misguided "authority" (NULL), but when we let even one of them get away with hurting, yes, even a criminal, then we give them permission to shoot at our kids when they disagree with the cops.
    to beat up our parents when they want to know why they are being stopped/detained.
    to steal money from our fellow citizens without regard to their fourth amendment rights.

    Can you seriously back a police state? What about when it shows up at your door?
    Hyperbole much?

    The reason many people feel fear when they see lights behind them is because they have done something wrong. The punishment is what they fear. The vast majority fears the ticket the cop is about to give them, which is going to cost them money or being arrested because that is going to cost them money.

    Plus, many people don't side with the cops. And cops aren't like the BatFamily. They don't actually have this utility belt full of non-lethal gadgets to subdue people, nor did the vast majority train for about a decade or more, picking up more training along the way, to learn how not to kill people but still capture them. Life isn't a comic book.
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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    When it is blatant, we do. But in many cases it becomes a double edged sword. It leads to cops questioning their level of force to an extent that puts them and possibly the public at risk when someone isn't subdued that should have been because the officer is more worried about how much force is "proper" and not going to potentially get them brought up on charges of murder because someone died due to a combination of circumstances that included their use of force.
    So, rather than putting an assailant down non-lethally using the many different training methods and technologies available to you, you're saying we can't "limit the cops judgement" and should all just agree that firing your gun with deadly force, or choking people to death are acceptable methods of taking out a potentially hostile CITIZEN???

    you do realize that this is not a war zone and cops are our equals? we are not enemy combatants.

    its easy to look at something on tv and side with the police, but what happens when its you? or even better... when its someone you love?

    what happens when mom gets pulled over, asks the cop why its happening, and then gets yanked out of the car and beaten for resisting?

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    Re: Should violent and or lethal force be allowed in detaining a non-violent suspect?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Hyperbole much?

    The reason many people feel fear when they see lights behind them is because they have done something wrong. The punishment is what they fear. The vast majority fears the ticket the cop is about to give them, which is going to cost them money or being arrested because that is going to cost them money.

    Plus, many people don't side with the cops. And cops aren't like the BatFamily. They don't actually have this utility belt full of non-lethal gadgets to subdue people, nor did the vast majority train for about a decade or more, picking up more training along the way, to learn how not to kill people but still capture them. Life isn't a comic book.
    So you're saying that cops are not given proper training to deal with alleged criminals? So thats your argument for why we should allow them to shoot down our fellow citizens? Its a systemic problems and if cops don't receive that kind of training they shouldn't be on the streets pointing guns at their fellow Human

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