View Poll Results: Gentrification?

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  • On balance I think that gentrification is a good thing.

    13 72.22%
  • On balance I think that gentrification is a bad thing.

    5 27.78%
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Thread: Gentrification question.

  1. #11
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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Just depends. A lot of these houses used to be high-end houses that fell into disfavor and disrepair so it isn't like poor people built brownstones to begin with

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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Gran who's owned the home since 1964, suddenly sees her home's property value triple because of its location and suddenly she's looking at paying double the property taxes on a limited income.

    Eventually forcing her to lose her home.
    Right, that's the problem with it. Then again, that is why I have always preferred income taxes to sales and property taxes. If a state gets its revenue from income taxes, then Grandma pays taxes while she is working, then when she is on a limited income and of limited means, she doesn't have to pay much in taxes. Property taxes work the exact opposite way.

    Then again, if Grandma's house increases a lot in value due to gentrification of where she lives, she can always sell it and use the money to move to Florida.
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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Right, that's the problem with it. Then again, that is why I have always preferred income taxes to sales and property taxes. If a state gets its revenue from income taxes, then Grandma pays taxes while she is working, then when she is on a limited income and of limited means, she doesn't have to pay much in taxes. Property taxes work the exact opposite way.

    Then again, if Grandma's house increases a lot in value due to gentrification of where she lives, she can always sell it and use the money to move to Florida.
    The issue of property taxes brings out the libertarian in me. I can wrap my head around taxing monetary exchanges where a profit is made, but taxing something (a house) that isn't generating income in and of itself sounds too much like paying rent for a house you technically own. If nothing else the taxes on it should be on a massive sliding scale like with estate taxes, otherwise as in this discussion people are being pushed out solely for the crime of being poor.

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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Right, that's the problem with it. Then again, that is why I have always preferred income taxes to sales and property taxes. If a state gets its revenue from income taxes, then Grandma pays taxes while she is working, then when she is on a limited income and of limited means, she doesn't have to pay much in taxes. Property taxes work the exact opposite way.

    Then again, if Grandma's house increases a lot in value due to gentrification of where she lives, she can always sell it and use the money to move to Florida.
    Yeah, that's not going to change in our lifetime - our education system is built on property taxes. Changing that would be changing our country's budgetary operations on every level, and would require moving a political mountain with a bulldozer.

    But yes, that's the issue. Longtime homeowners have been in these neighborhoods for their entire lives. Their community is there, they may own a business there or want their kids to go to a certain school. It's their home. Then suddenly it's the "hip" new place and they see their cost of living hit the ceiling and they suddenly can't live in their home anymore. EG,

    Cities Mobilize to Help Those Threatened by Gentrification

    The initiatives, planned or underway in Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh and other cities, are centered on reducing or freezing property taxes for such homeowners in an effort to promote neighborhood stability, preserve character and provide a dividend of sorts to those who have stayed through years of high crime, population loss and declining property values, officials say.

    ...

    Jacy Webster applied for a cap on his property taxes after the value of his home in Philadelphia quintupled amid a flurry of new construction.

    Rene Goodwin, seen here, saw the value of her home rise to $281,000 from $90,000 in a single year.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/04/us...ew-gentry.html
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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Yeah, that's not going to change in our lifetime - our education system is built on property taxes. Changing that would be changing our country's budgetary operations on every level, and would require moving a political mountain with a bulldozer.
    Dammit, I forgot about the property taxes and education part. I've always believed that all schools should be Federally funded rather than the quality of a school being tied to the wealth of its community. I ****ing hate property taxes -- they are the main culprit here.

    But yes, that's the issue. Longtime homeowners have been in these neighborhoods for their entire lives. Their community is there, they may own a business there or want their kids to go to a certain school. It's their home. Then suddenly it's the "hip" new place and they see their cost of living hit the ceiling and they suddenly can't live in their home anymore. EG,
    Well don't blame artists. Downtrodden warehouse and factory districts are pretty much the only way artists are going to afford large, decent studio space.

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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Excellent thing. Sooner-the-better.
    Being in Chicago, you are probably of the mindset that this has to do with urban revitalization alone. There are other aspects to it. I am more concerned about Rural Gentrification. Renovating a street of old Victorians that have been divided into low rent apartments is fine and dandy. In my area, there are other aspects such as developers driving up tax values of farms making it harder to keep a farm a farm because someone built a bunch of 5K+ square foot homes in the area, or weekend vacation cabins on the mountain, or because the one who did then try to disrupt farms because they can smell the cow manure when they are entertaining on their patios. There are also people who buy up these farms speculatively and put restrictions and covenants on them that limit their use even though they do not actually develop the land and just hope that will cause a developer to pay them more for the land. It is far more complex an issue on the fringes of urban areas than in Old Town type areas.

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    Re: Gentrification question.

    We see some of this in Houston, but the elderly stay, property taxes are frozen
    at age 65, and I don't remember the county forcing any senior out of their house for,
    for non payment, (they just put a lean on the property, and collect from their estate)
    The below 65 poor, do have a problem, as they can no longer afford ether the taxes or the rent.

  8. #18
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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    We see some of this in Houston, but the elderly stay, property taxes are frozen
    at age 65, and I don't remember the county forcing any senior out of their house for,
    for non payment, (they just put a lean on the property, and collect from their estate)
    The below 65 poor, do have a problem, as they can no longer afford ether the taxes or the rent.
    My wife is from Houston. That city has to lead the world in people buying up an old Cape Cod, tearing it down, and building the absolute biggest house you could possibly fit on the property.
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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    We see some of this in Houston, but the elderly stay, property taxes are frozen
    at age 65, and I don't remember the county forcing any senior out of their house for,
    for non payment, (they just put a lean on the property, and collect from their estate)
    The below 65 poor, do have a problem, as they can no longer afford ether the taxes or the rent.
    My city is militant about tax collection on real estate. You do not have to be very long delinquent by very much before your $500 unpaid property tax bill becomes a $5500 bill with penalties and legal fees. Seniors on limited incomes can get tax relief though, among others.

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    Re: Gentrification question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Gentrification seems to be something of a controversial issue these days. On balance, do you think that gentrification is a good thing or a bad thing?
    It is good for the neighborhood and those who can continue to afford to live there, not so good for those who no longer can afford to live there. It is a thing, and like most things has it's good and bad aspects.
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