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The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

Are the only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

  • Im a right leaning American, yes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23
I live in CA, we already tried it, there are plenty of ways around it, and since many illegals work under the table its not going to work anyway.
Nothing you can think of has not been tried.

You'd be fine with illegal immigration, I am not.

I'm for fixing the system so that we don't have to have the same debate again in fifteen years.
 
Pro-illegals often utter that line "the only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans". President Obama is a pro-illegal.So I seriously doubt he was trying to be funny.

With all due respect, all politicians are pro-illegal. How do you think you get your astonishingly low-cost produce and goods? A lot of Americans talk up a good game of being against illegal immigrant labor, but if the cost of our goods actually corresponded to the wages paid to American citizens, everyone would scream to kingdom come. So that's the game: make a show of being against illegal immigrants, but do everything in their power to keep them here (and then quickly get rid of them when they services are complete) to keep the populace happy.
 
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With all due respect, all politicians are pro-illegal. How do you think you get your astonishingly low-cost produce and goods? A lot of Americans talk up a good game of being against illegal immigrant labor, but if the cost of our goods actually corresponded to the wages paid to American citizens, everyone would scream to kingdom come. So that's the game: make a show of being against illegal immigrants, but do everything in their power to keep them here (and then quickly get rid of them when they services are complete) to keep the populace happy.

So what republicans are doing what obama is doing? "All" politicians certainly aren't.
 
Mine played by the rules, too. Did it take your ancestors ten plus years of waiting, or did they enter through Ellis Island?

They entered through Ellis Island. I don't know how long it took, but I was curious about your ten+ years of waiting and Googled a bit. According to one site:

Once your application for naturalization is filed, the approval time to become a US citizen varies by person and location. The short answer is that it can take anywhere from 5 to 8 months between application and interview. If you live in an area with heavy immigrant populations, it is not unusual to wait 2 years or more to become a US citizen. The USCIS (US Citizenship and Immigration Services or Immigration Services) claims to be working on reducing the processing time for naturalization to approximately 6 months. However, that goal has not yet been reached.

How Long Does it Take to Become a U.S. Citizen After Filing My Application for Naturalization?

According to the USCIS: "The time it takes to be naturalized varies by location. USCIS is continuing to modernize and improve the naturalization process and would like to decrease the
time it takes to an average of 6 months after the Form N-400 is filed." http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/article/chapter3.pdf

From another immigration helper site:

The US citizenship process can take less than a year or several years. Part of the variation depends on where you are with your application right now. If you are not a legal permanent resident of the United States, this is your first step. If you wish to become a US citizen and neither of your parents are US citizens, you’ll first need to immigrate to the United States and become a legal permanent resident. Once that is completed, a process that alone can take a few years, you’ll need to remain in the United States and establish permanent residency for five years, without extended absences. Once the five years are up, you will then be able to apply for naturalization. If you take active part in the American armed forces or are married to a US citizen, the residency requirement may be far smaller. For example, a person married to a US citizen may only need to wait three years after getting permanent residency in order to apply for US citizenship.

Assuming that you already are a permanent resident and have established residency in the United States for the required amount of time, the actual US citizenship application process can take between six months to year, or even more. To begin the citizenship process, you will need to file USCIS form N-400. Processing of this form can take a little as six months or more than a year. Any mistakes on your form can delay the process considerably, so it is important to fill out the application for citizenship (N-400) as accurately and as fully as possible. You may want to get additional help with the application process to ensure that your citizenship request is not delayed due to a preventable mistake. How Long Does the US Citizenship Process Take? | US Immigration News

I know just about nothing about immigration policies and procedures. Are you saying, Helix, that the average time to become a naturalized citizen is over ten years?
 
They entered through Ellis Island. I don't know how long it took, but I was curious about your ten+ years of waiting and Googled a bit. According to one site:

Once your application for naturalization is filed, the approval time to become a US citizen varies by person and location. The short answer is that it can take anywhere from 5 to 8 months between application and interview. If you live in an area with heavy immigrant populations, it is not unusual to wait 2 years or more to become a US citizen. The USCIS (US Citizenship and Immigration Services or Immigration Services) claims to be working on reducing the processing time for naturalization to approximately 6 months. However, that goal has not yet been reached.

How Long Does it Take to Become a U.S. Citizen After Filing My Application for Naturalization?

According to the USCIS: "The time it takes to be naturalized varies by location. USCIS is continuing to modernize and improve the naturalization process and would like to decrease the
time it takes to an average of 6 months after the Form N-400 is filed." http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/article/chapter3.pdf

From another immigration helper site:

The US citizenship process can take less than a year or several years. Part of the variation depends on where you are with your application right now. If you are not a legal permanent resident of the United States, this is your first step. If you wish to become a US citizen and neither of your parents are US citizens, you’ll first need to immigrate to the United States and become a legal permanent resident. Once that is completed, a process that alone can take a few years, you’ll need to remain in the United States and establish permanent residency for five years, without extended absences. Once the five years are up, you will then be able to apply for naturalization. If you take active part in the American armed forces or are married to a US citizen, the residency requirement may be far smaller. For example, a person married to a US citizen may only need to wait three years after getting permanent residency in order to apply for US citizenship.

Assuming that you already are a permanent resident and have established residency in the United States for the required amount of time, the actual US citizenship application process can take between six months to year, or even more. To begin the citizenship process, you will need to file USCIS form N-400. Processing of this form can take a little as six months or more than a year. Any mistakes on your form can delay the process considerably, so it is important to fill out the application for citizenship (N-400) as accurately and as fully as possible. You may want to get additional help with the application process to ensure that your citizenship request is not delayed due to a preventable mistake. How Long Does the US Citizenship Process Take? | US Immigration News

I know just about nothing about immigration policies and procedures. Are you saying, Helix, that the average time to become a naturalized citizen is over ten years?

it really depends on where you are coming from.

Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner says it takes 25 years to obtain citizenship legally and just 13 years for illegal immigrants under Senate bill | PolitiFact Wisconsin
 
I would vote, but since I am neither left or right leaning...I can't.

Must be a US Conservative poll.
 
I'm fine with more border security if we address the root causes and update the immigration system.

Changing the immigration system will never address the problem, and changing it the way you suggest (let everyone in) will do nothing but destroy us. There's a good reason NO modern country has such an immigration system.
 
Running every job through everify is a way to enforce the law and make it unprofitable for employers to hire undocumented workers. Are you against that?

No, it won't. Everify helps, heck we used to use I9s. The only difference is the rapid response on verification. Neither system shields against identity theft. And it won't even touch under the table business.
 
I'm for fixing the system so that we don't have to have the same debate again in fifteen years.

The moment you start to allow them to stay and file for amnesty you're guaranteeing an influx of illegals and the same debate forever going forward.
 


Actually, you're and he are talking nonsense. No matter how long the paperwork takes for citizenship that's not the issue. In the meantime you have already been given permanent residency status. That means they are here legally, can work, get a license, etc. They just can't vote yet.
 
Changing the immigration system will never address the problem, and changing it the way you suggest (let everyone in) will do nothing but destroy us. There's a good reason NO modern country has such an immigration system.

strawman. i never argued to let everyone in.
 
The moment you start to allow them to stay and file for amnesty you're guaranteeing an influx of illegals and the same debate forever going forward.

not if we enact everify, crushing fines for employers, and a realistic immigration system
 
Actually, you're and he are talking nonsense. No matter how long the paperwork takes for citizenship that's not the issue. In the meantime you have already been given permanent residency status. That means they are here legally, can work, get a license, etc. They just can't vote yet.

they're here, and we aren't going to deport all of them. it's just not going to happen. the best that we can do is to bring them out of the underground economy and to enact some measures that will make it more difficult for this scenario to happen again.
 
Yeah he didn't make up that line, and I suspect he believes it.

Anyone who regulllary goes to the immigration forum and watches pro-illegals speak sees them spew that nonsense. Sometimes they just post a picture of indians holding guns with the caption "fighting illegal immigration since 1492". Which in reality that picture if anything helps the anti-illegal immigration side more due to the picture being a cautionary tale of what happens when you do not control your borders.
 
No, it won't. Everify helps, heck we used to use I9s. The only difference is the rapid response on verification. Neither system shields against identity theft. And it won't even touch under the table business.

sure it will. every job goes through everify, and fines for noncompliance should be crushing. like business ending fines, even if you subcontract so that you can pretend that you don't know. and we use those fines to fund enforcement.

now speaking realistically, this will never happen, because the industries which are the draw for illegal labor have too much lobbying power. but we're on an internet message board, which gives us the luxury of coming up with a real solution. in reality, if you don't like illegal immigration, the only thing you can really do is not buy the products of businesses that depend on it. good luck with that, though.
 
With all due respect, all politicians are pro-illegal.
Not they are not.


How do you think you get your astonishingly low-cost produce and goods? A lot of Americans talk up a good game of being against illegal immigrant labor, but if the cost of our goods actually corresponded to the wages paid to American citizens, everyone would scream to kingdom come. So that's the game: make a show of being against illegal immigrants, but do everything in their power to keep them here (and then quickly get rid of them when they services are complete) to keep the populace happy.

Oh good it is the fear mongering pro-illegal lie that if do not allow illegal immigration then the price of goods will skyrocket.

Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper
You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ½ hours for an acre of wheat.

The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year — only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.
 
sure it will. every job goes through everify, and fines for noncompliance should be crushing. like business ending fines, even if you subcontract so that you can pretend that you don't know. and we use those fines to fund enforcement.

now speaking realistically, this will never happen, because the industries which are the draw for illegal labor have too much lobbying power. but we're on an internet message board, which gives us the luxury of coming up with a real solution. in reality, if you don't like illegal immigration, the only thing you can really do is not buy the products of businesses that depend on it. good luck with that, though.

Once again you ignore reality and history. EVerify, once it's mature (it doesn't work very well just yet), is an important tool. However, it's not the panacea you think it is. It's becoming clear you've never used the system and don't really know what it's for or how easy it is to get around it.
 
You're arguing for an Ellis Island system, what in the heck do you think that entails?

it entails not waiting ten years to become an American, but it does not entail open borders. i support a compromise system that makes it easier to become an American, but not a guarantee.
 
Once again you ignore reality and history. EVerify, once it's mature (it doesn't work very well just yet), is an important tool. However, it's not the panacea you think it is. It's becoming clear you've never used the system and don't really know what it's for or how easy it is to get around it.

and if they manage to cheat the system, they should be fined out of existence. eventually, we will make enough examples that businesses like Tyson and others will be too afraid to take the risk.
 
they're here, and we aren't going to deport all of them. it's just not going to happen. the best that we can do is to bring them out of the underground economy and to enact some measures that will make it more difficult for this scenario to happen again.

That first is a ridiculous strawman that has been debunked in virtually every thread this board has ever had where it comes to illegals and still the shippers trot it out. And no, the best we can do is to put out the message through word and deed that if you are here illegally you get nothing and when we catch you we WILL take everything you've accumulated here and deport you, no matter your sob story.
 
That first is a ridiculous strawman that has been debunked in virtually every thread this board has ever had where it comes to illegals and still the shippers trot it out. And no, the best we can do is to put out the message through word and deed that if you are here illegally you get nothing and when we catch you we WILL take everything you've accumulated here and deport you, no matter your sob story.

i don't agree. i think the best that we can do is to enact a realistic immigration system, and make it very unprofitable for businesses which violate the rules. jobs are a big part of the draw.
 
it entails not waiting ten years to become an American, but it does not entail open borders. i support a compromise system that makes it easier to become an American, but not a guarantee.

Then you are ignorant of the history and workings of Ellis Island. And what is wrong with having to wait ten years to be a citizen? Even though you don't right now. If you've read any of the material posted thus far you know they have legal permanent residency in the meantime. That means the only thing they cannot do is vote.

We already allow the legal immigration of over a million people every year.
 
i don't agree. i think the best that we can do is to enact a realistic immigration system, and make it very unprofitable for businesses which violate the rules. jobs are a big part of the draw.

We already have that first part you are hanging your arguments upon. It is already very unprofitable by law to hire illegals. What is lacking is enforcement.
 
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