View Poll Results: Are the only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

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  • Im a right leaning American, yes.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, yes.

    3 11.54%
  • Im not American, yes.

    2 7.69%
  • Im a right leaning American, no.

    14 53.85%
  • Im a left leaning American, no.

    4 15.38%
  • Im not American, no.

    3 11.54%
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Thread: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

  1. #91
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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, it won't. Everify helps, heck we used to use I9s. The only difference is the rapid response on verification. Neither system shields against identity theft. And it won't even touch under the table business.
    sure it will. every job goes through everify, and fines for noncompliance should be crushing. like business ending fines, even if you subcontract so that you can pretend that you don't know. and we use those fines to fund enforcement.

    now speaking realistically, this will never happen, because the industries which are the draw for illegal labor have too much lobbying power. but we're on an internet message board, which gives us the luxury of coming up with a real solution. in reality, if you don't like illegal immigration, the only thing you can really do is not buy the products of businesses that depend on it. good luck with that, though.

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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    With all due respect, all politicians are pro-illegal.
    Not they are not.


    How do you think you get your astonishingly low-cost produce and goods? A lot of Americans talk up a good game of being against illegal immigrant labor, but if the cost of our goods actually corresponded to the wages paid to American citizens, everyone would scream to kingdom come. So that's the game: make a show of being against illegal immigrants, but do everything in their power to keep them here (and then quickly get rid of them when they services are complete) to keep the populace happy.
    Oh good it is the fear mongering pro-illegal lie that if do not allow illegal immigration then the price of goods will skyrocket.

    Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper
    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices call it the "illegal-worker discount" is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born represents only a sliver of the retail price.

    Consider those apples Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 hours for an acre of wheat.

    The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    sure it will. every job goes through everify, and fines for noncompliance should be crushing. like business ending fines, even if you subcontract so that you can pretend that you don't know. and we use those fines to fund enforcement.

    now speaking realistically, this will never happen, because the industries which are the draw for illegal labor have too much lobbying power. but we're on an internet message board, which gives us the luxury of coming up with a real solution. in reality, if you don't like illegal immigration, the only thing you can really do is not buy the products of businesses that depend on it. good luck with that, though.
    Once again you ignore reality and history. EVerify, once it's mature (it doesn't work very well just yet), is an important tool. However, it's not the panacea you think it is. It's becoming clear you've never used the system and don't really know what it's for or how easy it is to get around it.

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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    strawman. i never argued to let everyone in.
    You're arguing for an Ellis Island system, what in the heck do you think that entails?

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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You're arguing for an Ellis Island system, what in the heck do you think that entails?
    it entails not waiting ten years to become an American, but it does not entail open borders. i support a compromise system that makes it easier to become an American, but not a guarantee.

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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Once again you ignore reality and history. EVerify, once it's mature (it doesn't work very well just yet), is an important tool. However, it's not the panacea you think it is. It's becoming clear you've never used the system and don't really know what it's for or how easy it is to get around it.
    and if they manage to cheat the system, they should be fined out of existence. eventually, we will make enough examples that businesses like Tyson and others will be too afraid to take the risk.

  7. #97
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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    they're here, and we aren't going to deport all of them. it's just not going to happen. the best that we can do is to bring them out of the underground economy and to enact some measures that will make it more difficult for this scenario to happen again.
    That first is a ridiculous strawman that has been debunked in virtually every thread this board has ever had where it comes to illegals and still the shippers trot it out. And no, the best we can do is to put out the message through word and deed that if you are here illegally you get nothing and when we catch you we WILL take everything you've accumulated here and deport you, no matter your sob story.

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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That first is a ridiculous strawman that has been debunked in virtually every thread this board has ever had where it comes to illegals and still the shippers trot it out. And no, the best we can do is to put out the message through word and deed that if you are here illegally you get nothing and when we catch you we WILL take everything you've accumulated here and deport you, no matter your sob story.
    i don't agree. i think the best that we can do is to enact a realistic immigration system, and make it very unprofitable for businesses which violate the rules. jobs are a big part of the draw.

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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    it entails not waiting ten years to become an American, but it does not entail open borders. i support a compromise system that makes it easier to become an American, but not a guarantee.
    Then you are ignorant of the history and workings of Ellis Island. And what is wrong with having to wait ten years to be a citizen? Even though you don't right now. If you've read any of the material posted thus far you know they have legal permanent residency in the meantime. That means the only thing they cannot do is vote.

    We already allow the legal immigration of over a million people every year.

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    Re: The only people with the right to object to immigration are Native Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i don't agree. i think the best that we can do is to enact a realistic immigration system, and make it very unprofitable for businesses which violate the rules. jobs are a big part of the draw.
    We already have that first part you are hanging your arguments upon. It is already very unprofitable by law to hire illegals. What is lacking is enforcement.

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