View Poll Results: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary (Choose as many as you like)

Voters
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  • Clinton

    8 36.36%
  • Warren

    10 45.45%
  • Webb

    13 59.09%
  • Sanders

    9 40.91%
  • Biden

    4 18.18%
  • O'Malley

    4 18.18%
  • Cuomo

    4 18.18%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

  1. #31
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    2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Appealing to mainstream liberals is not extreme. And that is what the Dems have failed to do for the majority of the last 20 years.

    Most Dems these days plot to the right on a political compass. Forget "extremes" -- they've moved so far away from liberal that it's almost like they're trying to grab RINO's instead of their own party.

    The Democrats' problem is that they don't appeal to anyone.
    A very popular, if not sympathetic point.

    If one party pivots strongly to their base, it is highly advisable for the other party to go after the moderates and make the former seem isolated.

    As of this moment, your idea would be popular among both parties. It sounds nice, but one party must always look to be the one with "reasonable" appeal (I.e. Tossing aside the base).
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #32
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Both parties fault at trying to appeal to their extremes.
    Both are increasingly convinced that their bases are ignored, while the other party is rabidly going the other direction. It's kind of comical, really.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #33
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    A very popular, if not sympathetic point.

    If one party pivots strongly to their base, it is highly advisable for the other party to go after the moderates and make the former seem isolated.
    The Republicans don't have the same base they did back in the day. Their base these days is, firstly, reactionaries, and secondly, the politically ambivalent who are just tired of Dems never getting anything done on any metric, liberal or otherwise.

    The political Democrats today are literally conservatives. All they ever do -- because since they've shirked the idea of supporting liberal policy, it's all they can do -- is try to keep things the way they are. That is a type of moderate conservatism (in action, if not necessarily in root cause).

    The plan of "appealing to the moderates" hasn't worked, because the fact is, we still have a lot of liberals in this country. And the Democrats are losing more of them every election by continuing to be nothing but moderate conservatives, and gaining a few more moderates hasn't made up for losing so many liberals.

    We don't have a liberal major party. We have conservatives and reactionaries.

  4. #34
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Both are increasingly convinced that their bases are ignored, while the other party is rabidly going the other direction. It's kind of comical, really.
    Well, they both are, in a way. Neither are appealing, on issues, to the average person, certainly.

  5. #35
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Hillary's in there like her swimwear. No doubt about it. She has name recognition, has the money, has Bill, and has detached herself from Pres Obama enough that people will forget about that part of it. Plus, she understands this may be her last opportunity to run so she'll push hard to make it. I don't think anyone can hang with her from the Democratic party honestly. Warren is the Ron Paul of the Democratic Party in that she has a small but fervent support base that will always get her name in the discussion but never get her over the hump.
    Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger. ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. Thomas Jefferson

  6. #36
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Hillary's in there like her swimwear. No doubt about it. She has name recognition, has the money, has Bill, and has detached herself from Pres Obama enough that people will forget about that part of it. Plus, she understands this may be her last opportunity to run so she'll push hard to make it. I don't think anyone can hang with her from the Democratic party honestly. Warren is the Ron Paul of the Democratic Party in that she has a small but fervent support base that will always get her name in the discussion but never get her over the hump.
    If anything, that's unfortunate, because she was never more popular than she was as Obama's Sec of State during his first term.

    Hillary didn't generate a ton of passion the first time around, and she won't this time either. If there's someone even mildly exciting, she'll lose. If she wins, count on liberal voters staying home -- that's what they do when there's no one interesting.

    Warren is coming 2nd or 3rd behind Clinton right now according to an earlier link. And that's considering that a lot of people aren't especially politically aware, and won't have heard about her at all until if/when she makes a run, so obviously that's affecting her numbers. Who's she fighting for second with? Biden, someone everyone knows about.

    Warren is most definitely the dark horse of the race if she chooses to run. And let's not forget, dark horses tend to do well for the Democrats in recent decades. They tend to win, in fact.

  7. #37
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    If anything, that's unfortunate, because she was never more popular than she was as Obama's Sec of State during his first term.

    Hillary didn't generate a ton of passion the first time around, and she won't this time either. If there's someone even mildly exciting, she'll lose. If she wins, count on liberal voters staying home -- that's what they do when there's no one interesting.

    Warren is coming 2nd or 3rd behind Clinton right now according to an earlier link. And that's considering that a lot of people aren't especially politically aware, and won't have heard about her at all until if/when she makes a run, so obviously that's affecting her numbers. Who's she fighting for second with? Biden, someone everyone knows about.

    Warren is most definitely the dark horse of the race if she chooses to run. And let's not forget, dark horses tend to do well for the Democrats in recent decades. They tend to win, in fact.
    Biden has no chance IMO. The guy has said and will say too many stupid things to make it. I think he's entertaining personally but the media crucifies anyone that isn't spit and polished so severely that any one gaff takes a person totally out of the running. It'll be Clinton, even if it isn't enthusiastic. I don't think the Democratic Party is ready for the let down of 2016 personally. There is no Barack Obama around the corner that will stir up their base this time. He was a rare candidate in that he inspired a lot of people to vote that normally wouldn't. I don't think that will be repeated for a long time. By either party.
    Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger. ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. Thomas Jefferson

  8. #38
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I saw no passion for him from anywhere whatsoever. Not in life, not on DP, and not in the media.
    You don't need passion to win these days. Just money. An unfortunate truth.

    No -- I said there's enough of them for it to make a difference. And a LOT of those independents are actually liberals who left the party because the Dems aren't actually liberal anymore.
    Hey, I agree the Dems need to be more liberal if they are to win. I definitely don't disagree on that point. I've been saying it to anyone that would listen. That's why I, personally, rarely vote Democrat. I'd rather stick with the Greens or even the Libertarians. If I wanted to vote for Republicans I'd just vote in the real deal.

    The centrists are impossible to predict. They're all over the place. Any candidate will get at least some of them.
    True, but some can get more than others.

    The moderates? Well, look. It's really unlikely anyone in the GOP field is going to appeal to most moderates. Plus, they're a minority within a minority. The Dems need to stop worrying so much about them, and focus on actually being Democrats -- something they haven't done for at least 20 years.
    Again, I don't disagree. But the Dems can't focus on just their liberal base. That would be dumb IMO. Get back to the left on economic policies absolutely, but don't just focus on pandering to the staunch liberals. Appealing to one base won't win an election.

    Yeah, but we're talking about Democrats. His gun stances are losing propositions right out of the gate, and so are at least some of his immigration stances.
    Not necessarily. His immigration stance is pretty ok, this is coming from someone who supports open borders. Secure the borders amd grant amnesty to those already here. It's reasonable and pragmatic.

    As for his guns stance? It's not exactly illiberal to support gun rights.

    Appealing to libertarians is a completely foolish thing to do.
    I absolutely and 100% disagree.

    For every libertarian they gain, they're going to lose 2 Democrats, because they have virtually no stances in common apart from gay marriage.
    Not true in even a remote sense.

    Guns alone won't be enough to sway libertarians.
    It's not just guns though, that's the point. Webb has an extremely strong record on both foreign policy and civil issues. His social issues also have quite a bit of appeal to libertarians. Webb would have the libertarian vote easy and wouldn't really need to alienate as many liberals as you seem to think to do it. You think Jeb Bush would do a better job at courting the libertarians? Chris Christie? Ted Cruz? Rick Perry? Fat chance! But Jim Webb, yeah he could do it.

    His fiscal policy will switch most of them right off.
    Not all libertarians are fiscally on the right.

    Looking a little closer at him, he's also going to have some problems with women and gays based on some prior votes and work he did (some decades ago, and some rescinded, but that won't stop them).
    That is a valid concern for sure. But I think he could work something out. He's not the only Dem to have some past baggage on social issues.

  9. #39
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Biden has no chance IMO. The guy has said and will say too many stupid things to make it. I think he's entertaining personally but the media crucifies anyone that isn't spit and polished so severely that any one gaff takes a person totally out of the running. It'll be Clinton, even if it isn't enthusiastic. I don't think the Democratic Party is ready for the let down of 2016 personally. There is no Barack Obama around the corner that will stir up their base this time. He was a rare candidate in that he inspired a lot of people to vote that normally wouldn't. I don't think that will be repeated for a long time. By either party.
    I agree. So the fact that he has no chance, and his numbers are probably maxed out, makes it even more clear Warren is the only seriously contender currently on the stage. Her numbers have a lot of room to grow due to simple awareness, to say nothing of switching over, and she doesn't have the recent history that Biden does. Because what Warren does is stir up the base, dude. That's exactly her thing.

    It's just that, so far, the politically unaware haven't heard of her. Once they do, Hillary has a serious problem on her hands.

    Though if I were Warren, unless something colossal happens, I would wait for 2020. The Dem's chances are remote in 2016, simply due to America's tendency to decide they hate whatever party is in power right now and vote for the other one.

    Unless the Republicans totally screw Congress (and how much worse could it be screwed than what both parties have already done?), I think it's wiser for her to wait.

  10. #40
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    Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Nah. Clinton has the star power, Clinton has the money, and Clinton has the contacts. To continue my analogy to the 2012 Republican primaries, Clinton is the Mitt Romney of the 2016 primary. She's favored to win by those with the power and the money to make it happen.
    Fortunately, the GOP has no analog to Obama to compete with Hillary.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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