View Poll Results: Is it OK for businesses to strike

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    16 76.19%
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    3 14.29%
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Thread: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

  1. #51
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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Your answer might be in post #2.
    Whatshisname actually implied that it was okay for individuals to go on strike. Must've been someone who didn't post in the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    Pepe Booth strikes again.

  2. #52
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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Implying that the relationship between employers and employees is the same as the relationship between businesses and the government is a ridiculous notion.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

  3. #53
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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Guy, we ALL depend upon subsidies...or haven't you eaten any bread lately, since we share the benefit of low prices thanks to the subsidies we pay wheat farmers?
    I am on record as needed to stop such subsidies if they exist. I know of corn subsidies, I wasn't aware wheat needed any subsidies.

    I say, get rid of them. So what, maybe we pay a little more for bread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    If anybody who got subsidies couldn't vote, most of our farmers couldn't vote.
    Well, we should stop the subsidies, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Most of our elderly couldn't vote (Medicare/Medicaid).
    Medicare is paid for by employees as part of an insurance, and not the type of subsidy I refer to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Anybody whose children got reduced-cost lunches at school couldn't vote.
    Rightly so. Dependance on subsidies make a person vote to keep such subsidies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Anybody who went on unemployment because they were laid off after their company went out of business couldn't vote...which means you're disenfranchising people because their employers didn't know how to run a business properly.
    False.

    Unemployment benefits are paid for with a business unemployment insurance tax. It is an employee insurance. Don't consider such things a subsidy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And then there's the taxpayer-supported state colleges - the students pay lower prices thanks to those tax dollars, so I guess they couldn't vote, either. And then there's those who serve in the military - we got lower prices at the commissary, free housing, and so forth. Sure, you might try to label those as 'benefits' - but in reality, they're subsidies.
    Going a bit overboard aren't you?

    Maybe you should look up the definition of "subsidy" before you continue of such false statements.

    Military... That's part of their benefits package. Commissary prices aren't subsidized. There simply is less profit involved. No profit actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And then there's the victims of disasters - they couldn't vote, either.
    I would exclude such things as those are unique events rather than what can be classed as a lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And women who were stuck with the children and had to go on public assistance because their husbands decided to leave couldn't vote, either.
    If such is the case of the case, then child support fills in just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    In other words, guy, what you're proposing is a can of worms that you really don't want to open.
    Wrong.

    I do want to open that can of worms. I get even more severe than that because I am intolerant of irresponsibility that requires the use of tax dollars to subsidize with. One of the biggest problems I see is women getting pregnant with no ability to pay for the costs. It has even become financially preferred to have a baby every three years to retain the highest level of benefits. My solution is this. If someone conceives a child when they are in no position to support the child, then if they want government benefits, both parents must get their tubes tied. This is a preventative measure to insure that neither parent can burden the system a second time for the same type of irresponsibility.

    Now contemplate that idea for a bit...

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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    If it's OK for workers to strike when they are unfairly treated by business, then is it OK for businesses to strike when unfairly treated by government?

    I didn't read the book, and only saw the first two "Atlas Shrugged" movies, but in both, major corporations just shut down, on strike, when the government kept pushing them.

    I thought about this idea after seeing the Walmart strike thread.
    Any theories as to why this has never happened? I voted 'yes' in the poll. Of course it's ok unless it's a public company. Even then it would be ok as long as the shareholders were on board.

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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    You mean like the several that did in Atlas Shrugged?
    That was a book. For some reason this has never happened in reality. The mentality of most business owner's is to close their business when it is no longer profitable, keep their business open when it is profitable or move their business when it is profitable elsewhere. Throwing a temper tantrum isn't really consistent with the mindset of an entrepreneur.

    If they were going to close their business they would just close it. They wouldn't whine or make demands.

  6. #56
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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    That was a book. For some reason this has never happened in reality. The mentality of most business owner's is to close their business when it is no longer profitable, keep their business open when it is profitable or move their business when it is profitable elsewhere. Throwing a temper tantrum isn't really consistent with the mindset of an entrepreneur.

    If they were going to close their business they would just close it. They wouldn't whine or make demands.
    They didn't just close their businesses in the book. They were recruited for their skills and continued to work and develop the valley that they all moved to. They chose to give the benefits of their skill and success to other like-minded people who valued the same drive. So they moved their businesses. No temper tantrum.

  7. #57
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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    If it's OK for workers to strike when they are unfairly treated by business, then is it OK for businesses to strike when unfairly treated by government?

    I didn't read the book, and only saw the first two "Atlas Shrugged" movies, but in both, major corporations just shut down, on strike, when the government kept pushing them.

    I thought about this idea after seeing the Walmart strike thread.
    If corporations are people, my friend, then I suppose so.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It is legal as far as I know, but doomed to failure. Some other business will swoop in and pick up the slack and the added profits. Atlas Shrugged was terribly naive, much like libertarianism.
    There's Redress with his daily partisan quip about libertarianism in a thread having nothing to do eith it. Do you, like, ever take a break?

  9. #59
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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by tomkat364 View Post
    They didn't just close their businesses in the book. They were recruited for their skills and continued to work and develop the valley that they all moved to. They chose to give the benefits of their skill and success to other like-minded people who valued the same drive. So they moved their businesses. No temper tantrum.
    The movie must be different than the book (which is common). In the movie Hank Reardon addresses congress with a fiery speech and everyone cheers and gives him credit as being a hero. Dagny Taggart tells him that he won. Hank Reardon says that you can win a war when it will be fought forever and ever.

    Most entrepreneurs wouldn't consider it a war in the way Hank Reardon described. Entrepreneurs are stereotypically cursed with razor sharp focus and ignore all the externals. Whining like a little girl isn't even on their radar of priorities.

    It Atlas Shrugged there was a consolidated disappearance of all successful people. Even though it wasn't literally a conspiracy the message of Ayn Rand was pretty clear. "Stop striking. We can do it too." Unions are very hard to organize. They are almost non-existent today. Entrepreneurs would be even less organized than workers. If they saw a chance to break from the conspiracy to quit then they would see an opportunity for their business during the intermediary stages.

    Ayn Rand's message isn't a realistic warning in the pure sense. Atlas Shrugged behavior is administered all the time but it's administered in isolated circumstances. Businesses will never organize against labor. They may leave for greener pastures but it won't be an organized effort like the book implies.

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    Re: A question regarding Atlas Shrugged

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    There may be some truth in that.

    What I have seen over the last several decades, is that voters don't vote for what is best for society as much as they vote for what is best for them. I believe to protect from the lazy harming the world, we need to regulate voting. My libertarian side hates regulation until they become necessary, and I believe this may become necessary. We need to disallow voting by people who rely on subsidies. All they ever vote for are politicians and measures that give them more of other people's money.

    I have been saying for years that the America I knew and grew up with is doomed to fail. My reasons are because of the "me, me, me" attitude of voters.
    Better give up your voting rights then.

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