View Poll Results: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

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  • Yes

    4 14.81%
  • No

    13 48.15%
  • Possibly/Sometimes

    10 37.04%
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Thread: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I honestly think burning down a police station, especially if there were police in it (as is always the case with police stations since they don't usually close) would damage whatever you're trying to accomplish. I know I wouldn't be sympathetic to anyone who would do that but that's just my opinion on a very specific hypothetical. Anyway, thanks for clarifying.
    Ultimately it depends on the type of violence and who it's directed at.

    As an example, during the infancy of the armed struggle under apartheid, the ANC's armed wing conducted a campaign of bombings that targeted things like power substations, power lines, empty government posts etc.

    I absolutely see that as justified.

    Murder of civilians is not justified under those circumstances as a few members committed in later years.

    As to the Police Station having police in it... well... context is always important.

    I'm never one to condone violence, but let's say in America no, the police station would be empty.

    Let's repaint a picture.

    Iraq.

    Arab spring.

    Saddam Hussein is still in power, protesters overrun a police station and find officers inside known to have tortured men and raped women in the locale... what do you think is gonna happen there and how would it make you feel?

  2. #22
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    I try to think of it with a sports analogy. When your team blows a big game or a player really makes the stupidest play you have ever seen, you can be as mad as hell, but come tomorrow, they are still your team. Burning and looting does not help and the ones who do it do not deserve to be heard, but those who just happen to look like the looters who are not themselves burning and looting should have a place at the table and be listened to in good faith. My police department isn't so bad as some of these appear to be. I want to know about the ones who are better and the ones who are worse. We really need to find out how bad, why, and what we can do to make them less sucky if that is possible for those.
    Down here in order to be a member of the county sheriff's department one must live in the county. The same for the different town police departments. They are all part of the community, our neighbors and friends who just happen to be police. Now we are a fairly rural county, Atlanta is 30 miles to the north of us. But it works for us, I don't know how it would work in the big cities.

    I don't think any of them gave it a try. Atlanta is always short of police or so it seems by all the advertisements in the AJC trying to recruit them. One of my neighbors about a mile down the road is an Atlanta cop. He drives 40 miles to work everyday. The difference here is the police in Henry are part of the Henry County Community, the police in Atlanta are not, to them it is just a job.

    Just something to think on.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Ultimately it depends on the type of violence and who it's directed at.

    As an example, during the infancy of the armed struggle under apartheid, the ANC's armed wing conducted a campaign of bombings that targeted things like power substations, power lines, empty government posts etc.

    I absolutely see that as justified.

    Murder of civilians is not justified under those circumstances as a few members committed in later years.

    As to the Police Station having police in it... well... context is always important.

    I'm never one to condone violence,
    What if it was saaaay the GOP headquarters or the radio station Rush Limbaugh broadcasted from?

    but let's say in America no, the police station would be empty.
    Well that's a little too easy. If you're going to say that violence against American police stations is justified, then you have to accept violence for what it is. It's unweildy and unpredictable. Burning down a police station as you used in your example of justifiable violence absolutely carries with it the possibility, in fact, the probability that someone will be in it. You can't sanitize violence. So now, if a couple cops were burned along with the building, do you think those people should be tried and punished for the cop killers they would be or not?

    Let's repaint a picture.

    Iraq.

    Arab spring.

    Saddam Hussein is still in power, protesters overrun a police station and find officers inside known to have tortured men and raped women in the locale... what do you think is gonna happen there and how would it make you feel?
    Which is why I said I should have tailored my question to violent protest in the US (similar as you might think we are to Iraq with a GOP controlled Senate and House ).
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  4. #24
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Down here in order to be a member of the county sheriff's department one must live in the county. The same for the different town police departments. They are all part of the community, our neighbors and friends who just happen to be police. Now we are a fairly rural county, Atlanta is 30 miles to the north of us. But it works for us, I don't know how it would work in the big cities.

    I don't think any of them gave it a try. Atlanta is always short of police or so it seems by all the advertisements in the AJC trying to recruit them. One of my neighbors about a mile down the road is an Atlanta cop. He drives 40 miles to work everyday. The difference here is the police in Henry are part of the Henry County Community, the police in Atlanta are not, to them it is just a job.

    Just something to think on.
    One does not need to live in the city to be an officer in the city in my town. Not sure about the county sheriff's policy on that.

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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Justified and effective are not the same thing. This question was about effectiveness. To vote 'no' on this question means that violent protest has a net neutral effect or pretty close to a net neutral impact. That is highly unlikely in my opinion. A severe negative impact can be a result of effective actions. A severe positive impact can be a result of effective actions.

    To imply that violence yields neutral results is silly. If someone punched you in the face every time that you looked at them with your left eye then you would stop opening your left eye when that person was around.
    Not true. I'm not at all saying that I think violent protest is "neutral", I'm saying it's detrimental to your cause.
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Perhaps it depends on who initiates the violence. A long time ago I watched a peaceful protest by blacks in Birmingham turn ugly as the police used dogs and fire hoses to break it up. The police initiated the violence, that day was a huge turning point in the march for civil rights. It proved in this old Georgia boys mind that segregation were wrong. they were the aggressors. It was time to change and for change. Without Birmingham who knows how the 1964 civil rights bill would have fared?
    I agree and it bears out what I'm saying. Confronting non violence with violence did not benefit the violent. One of the things I respect most about MLK was his insistence on non violence and that's what precipitated the change.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  7. #27
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    real question is when does protest become revolution....................
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  8. #28
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    One does not need to live in the city to be an officer in the city in my town. Not sure about the county sheriff's policy on that.
    I don't know if it would make a difference or not. But if the police live in and knew quite a lot of the people in the town he is an officer and the town folk knew him, that might have made a huge difference. Then again maybe not. I never lived in a big city.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Down here in order to be a member of the county sheriff's department one must live in the county. The same for the different town police departments. They are all part of the community, our neighbors and friends who just happen to be police. Now we are a fairly rural county, Atlanta is 30 miles to the north of us. But it works for us, I don't know how it would work in the big cities.

    I don't think any of them gave it a try. Atlanta is always short of police or so it seems by all the advertisements in the AJC trying to recruit them. One of my neighbors about a mile down the road is an Atlanta cop. He drives 40 miles to work everyday. The difference here is the police in Henry are part of the Henry County Community, the police in Atlanta are not, to them it is just a job.

    Just something to think on.
    Greetings, Pero.

    Same in my town. The police force here is relatively small, but they can call on the County Sheriff's Department for help, if necessary, but I honestly cannot recall the last when they may have had to do that, though. Our police routinely go the schools to teach children safety tips, and we all know each other since they have to live in our city if they want to be hired to work here. Our children respect the police, but I saw a lot of disrespect by some adults in Ferguson, I'm sorry to say, and it's bound to be noticed by the children. Sad...

  10. #30
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    Re: Is Violent "Protest" Effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by 274ina View Post
    real question is when does protest become revolution....................
    When it's participants are revolting, I guess.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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