View Poll Results: When is violent protest justified?

Voters
59. You may not vote on this poll
  • Always

    2 3.39%
  • Never

    24 40.68%
  • Under certain conditions (please explain)

    33 55.93%
Page 7 of 18 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 173

Thread: When is violent protest justified?

  1. #61
    User ThesisQuasar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Last Seen
    01-05-15 @ 01:56 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    In terms of your final point, I'm curious about whether you think citizens should do when using the democratic process does not accomplish their goals?
    I had considered elaborating further on that point of consideration, but since you asked, I will.

    It heavily depends on a variety of factors and new considerations:

    How rigged is the democracy that is present in a given society? Are there any peaceful loop holes that are reliable enough to create positive change? What is the degree of oppression to necessitate violence? What type(s) of oppression are present?

    I think that if a democracy is not able to handle or meet the basic necessities of its citizens, Or lacks basic infrastructure for its citizens, Or is actively committing negative actions against innocent citizens (Such as genocide, enforced slavery, etc) then a controlled form of goal-driven violence is justified, just as long as the violence is funneled for the goal of making conditions better. Violence without a goal, or that ultimately does not help towards a goal to justify itself, is both pointless and unethical.

    If a democracy prevents people from having basic rights and/or liberties, then the circumstances that would justify goal-driven violence aren't nearly as urgent, given that the prevention of rights isn't preventing someone from meeting their basic needs and necessities. As long as the democracy isn't severely rigged enough to prevent change democratically or through peaceful protest, and the aforementioned, then Violence can be deemed unnecessary. Violence in this second set of circumstances would most-likely almost never have to considered, and should only ever be considered if absolute stagnation is persistent on a permanent basis.

  2. #62
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:41 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,289

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    So where does breaking into or burning a store come into it?
    Once you let the situation disintegrate and the crowd get nasty, you have flunked. The thing can go anywhere. We saw that in the Arab Spring, Ukraine or syria. The trick is to prevent demonstrations from developing into riots and riots from becoming revolts or revolutions.

    I do not know that you have been following the international media, but we are not looking good to them.

  3. #63
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,158

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Once you let the situation disintegrate and the crowd get nasty, you have flunked. The thing can go anywhere. We saw that in the Arab Spring, Ukraine or syria. The trick is to prevent demonstrations from developing into riots and riots from becoming revolts or revolutions.

    I do not know that you have been following the international media, but we are not looking good to them.

    So how should "we" have not "let the situation disintegrate and the crowd get nasty" so we don't "flunk?"

    Give them what they wanted? Regardless of whether it was just?



    Incidentally I could give a **** what the international media thinks of our internal affairs.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  4. #64
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,928
    Blog Entries
    24

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Note : While I understand that everyone will respond to this thread through the lens of their experiences, I ask that everyone do their best to put aside any emotions, prejudices or non-intellectual motives that may color how they present their ideas when responding to the thread question and to other posters.

    In light of the violent protests in Ferguson as well as the calls for peaceful protests by some Americans, I believe that the question of when violent protest is justified has become a very important one to consider, if not fully answer. Given this importance, I pose the question to the members of DP : When is violent protest justified?

    Before you answer the question, I think it's fair for me to do that myself, though I should note that my position on this topic is still developing. In short, I believe that violent protest is justified when two conditions are met : 1. When the human or civil rights of the protesters have been threatened. 2. When all or most nonviolent means of protest have failed to secure the human or civil rights that have been threatened.
    I think I buy you two examples, they are good examples. But I am not sure if they are right or wrong. For me I think when violent protests are justified is like defining porn, you know it when you see it. Defining when a violent protest is justified is like knowing porn, you will know when and for what reason when you see it or felt it.

    I will add this, the violent protest should be against those whom you have the grievance. Instead of burning and looting ones own businesses and homes, if it is the police burn their stations, not yours. If it is against a government, burn and loot government offices, not yours. This turning down your own places makes no sense. At least to me.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  5. #65
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:41 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,289

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    So how should "we" have not "let the situation disintegrate and the crowd get nasty" so we don't "flunk?"

    Give them what they wanted? Regardless of whether it was just?

    Incidentally I could give a **** what the international media thinks of our internal affairs.
    Why that is simple. Charge the man and demonstrate justice is served. Show the evidence, hear the witnesses and all that. As it is, it feels like a cover up. And as you can see, the people do not like it.

  6. #66
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,158

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Why that is simple. Charge the man and demonstrate justice is served. Show the evidence, hear the witnesses and all that. As it is, it feels like a cover up. And as you can see, the people do not like it.


    There's an old saying: "You can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich".

    Implying that getting an indictment is easy.

    Yet they didn't indict.


    Wonder why.


    So your answer is put this man through a full-press court trial (costing a lot of money in lawyers), and all that implies, even though a grand jury did not find sufficient reason to indict, JUST BECAUSE it would appease the mob and prevent the rioting?

    That's known as 'pandering to the mob' and it is an ugly habit to get into. Study some history.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  7. #67
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:41 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,299
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Let's take Ferguson out of it and generalize the idea. Forgive the absurd example I'm about to use, but even though the characters are silly, the situation accurately illustrates the situation I'm trying to get your take on. Consider a situation in an imaginary place where short elves are allowed to be used as literal footstools by giants according to the law. The elves have had enough, so they protest the law peacefully. After protesting the law peacefully for several years, the government refuses to change the law. What step should the elves take next to change the law given the peaceful protest has not worked? (For context, the elves live under a government modeled after American government.)
    Using your example, the problem is that in the modern world, I do not think the violent protests would improve the lot of the short elves. If anything, I think the backlash would hurt their own cause.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #68
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:41 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,289

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There's an old saying: "You can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich".

    Implying that getting an indictment is easy.

    Yet they didn't indict.


    Wonder why.


    So your answer is put this man through a full-press court trial (costing a lot of money in lawyers), and all that implies, even though a grand jury did not find sufficient reason to indict, JUST BECAUSE it would appease the mob and prevent the rioting?

    That's known as 'pandering to the mob' and it is an ugly habit to get into. Study some history.
    In any event the justice system failed in one of its main functions. It was not seen to have been served. And if the people do not believe that justice will protect them, they revolt.

  9. #69
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,662

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Random acts of stupid violence. Never.

  10. #70
    Light△Bender

    grip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ☚ ☛
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,224
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    One groups justification is another groups crime. It hinges around the cause of the violent and riotest protesting. If the perception is that one group or class of citizens is being shown preferential treatment by societal standards, while another is being marginalized, then the powerlessness of their situation can cause emotionally fueled uprisings. It doesn't always matter if the initial catalyst is universally considered unjustified or not, it's the underlying schism that's not being addressed that sets off the chain reaction.

    These particular protests may be mainly divided by a racial/minority basis right now, but this has the potential to widen into class warfare, with the growing separation of financial sectors in the population. Combined with the Occupy Wallstreet Protests, Hong Kong Protests and European Austerity Protests these kind of upheavals are spreading around the globe, and based on common themes of the diminishing rights of the underprivileged.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Page 7 of 18 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •