View Poll Results: When is violent protest justified?

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Thread: When is violent protest justified?

  1. #41
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Imo, it isn't. If you're going to resort to violence, it had better be because you are willing to go to war, and sever your ties.
    There is no "right" to commit violence and destruction against others in society.
    What if you want to go to war and not sever your ties, but change how business is done?

  2. #42
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    When the government has acted too long against the rights and liberties of the People. The right to revolution was acknowledged and reserved in our Revolution. But things have to pretty much hit rock bottom. But even then, the sort of rioting and looting common to our modern bouts of anarchy are not proper; even in violent revolt.
    What, in your view, are the elements of modern violent protests that make it improper?

  3. #43
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    I thought about it and thought about it, and given that the OP referenced the Ferguson situation, my answer was "Never". It wasn't self-defense, and it wasn't to overthrow a dangerous regime, and it wasn't to save lives and make the world better. There was and can never be a single justification for what is going on in Ferguson, and many innocent people are paying the price.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  4. #44
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Is violence going to get their message out, or just get them condemned as violent? What are we talking about in Ferguson, the outcome of the grand jury, or the rioting?
    Let's take Ferguson out of it and generalize the idea. Forgive the absurd example I'm about to use, but even though the characters are silly, the situation accurately illustrates the situation I'm trying to get your take on. Consider a situation in an imaginary place where short elves are allowed to be used as literal footstools by giants according to the law. The elves have had enough, so they protest the law peacefully. After protesting the law peacefully for several years, the government refuses to change the law. What step should the elves take next to change the law given the peaceful protest has not worked? (For context, the elves live under a government modeled after American government.)

  5. #45
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I think you are contradicting yourself with your two posts. Protecting yourself and your property using violence is a right. The looters that you find yourself defending against are violent protesters.
    Are they not protesting self defense?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are they not protesting self defense?
    I'm not sure I understand your point. IMO if you come on my property, proceed to destroy my property and point a gun at me, you are a violent protester.

    If I blow your sorry ass away, I am acting in self defense.

    The only exception I can see is violent protest against a tyrannical government.
    That would not be self defense.

  7. #47
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThesisQuasar View Post
    At least these three conditions should be met:

    1. When there are particularly oppressive laws or infrastructure in place that Violate the peoples necessities or rights.

    2. When there are no peaceful mechanics Available to utilize that can allow the people to change aspects of society perceived to be oppressive.

    3. If the act of committing violence doesn't create more harm than it would good it both short-term and long-term foresights.

    Violence with the intended purpose of accomplishing something good is a double-edged action. It comes with negative effects in the hope that it produces a much bigger positive effect in the end. Unnecessary violence is both impermissible and unethical. The use of violence in any society structured as a democracy is unethical.
    Welcome to the forum Thesis. Your first post was more thoughtful than posts made by many of us who have been awhile. In any case, I think #3 is a valuable condition for violent protest, particularly in terms of specifying the consideration of both short and long term consequences. The long term is something that it is imperative to consider, but that is often neglected by those who participate in and endorse violent protests.

    In terms of your final point, I'm curious about whether you think citizens should do when using the democratic process does not accomplish their goals?

  8. #48
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Never, mainly because there is no such thing as *justified* violent protest. By definition protest means to express or declare objection, or disapproval, or opposition to something that happened by a group that is powerless to prevent it. Promote change to attempt not seeing the issue happen again, or as often. Violent protest then just means to engage in being militant about it for personal gain. Thus is no longer an expression of objection, but an excuse to commit crime and harm whoever. The term *justified* violent protest is a political distinction but not a social reality.

    Take the subject that generated this thread. Violent protest has nothing to do with a black kid being shot by a white cop, it became an excuse to cause harm to people and businesses in the area. Neither an expression of objection to the outcome of the Grand Jury decision or an expression for wanting change because of.

    Someone has already posted one of these in another forum, suggesting the real meaning of violent protest. Really look at these...

    When is violent protest justified?-53f4cfb0cf1e9-preview-620-jpg

    When is violent protest justified?-140816114147-01-ferguson-0816-horizontal-gallery-jpg

    ... because nothing says you are upset about a civil matter or care about a social issue more than using your t-shirt as a makeshift mask to then loot a half destroyed store for whatever you can find. You guys really think violent protest can be justified? Violent protest is an excuse to cause harm with no intention of doing social good. To really inflict societal change takes an attitude and personal drive that those who engaged in violent protest have no aptitude for. All evidence supporting.

    Now, if you had asked about social or governmental revolution we might be having another discussion. But that is not what we are talking about here, now is it?
    Last edited by OrphanSlug; 11-25-14 at 01:24 PM. Reason: qualifier
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

  9. #49
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    This is correct only if you have an autocratic form of government without the possibility for representative correction.
    On paper, and in theory, the government we have allows for representative correction, sure.

    In practice... not so much.

    I'm not going to get into a discussion about the million and one things that I think is wrong with American government (if we begin, as we should, with the premise that our government is of the people, by the people, for the people, and should, by right, be responsive to the people).

    But suffice it to say that it is my belief that we have traveled so far off the path of "representative correction" that the idea/ideal, as it applies to American governance, should only appear in history books.

    Since that is not the case, however...
    A point you and I clearly disagree on.

    ...directing violence against the municipal government and police force means that one wishes to overthrow the government of the people by the people by force, and you should be dealt with accordingly.
    I agree.

    It have every expectation that government will respond with force.

    And the prevalence of Interceptor body armor, ACHs, MRAPs, M4s, black BDUs, sniper teams in every small town police department, and etc... certainly indicates to me that government is aware of the growing discontent and is well prepared to respond in a manner that will, at least for a time, ensure that government maintains the upper hand.

    But there are a hell of a lot less gun owning government agents in this country than there are gun owning citizens and eventually the ham handed type response that government has become accustomed to using in order to shove its autocratic dictates down the throat of the American people is going to result in the overthrow of government.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  10. #50
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I tentatively suggest that every person and institution is entitled to their own idea of whether violence is appropriate and that, the value of their violence should be measured according to whether or not it helped them reach their goal. In other words, I wonder if the question to ask is "Who won?" rather than "Who should and should not have used force?"
    If they are willing to have the rest of society kill them.

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