View Poll Results: When is violent protest justified?

Voters
59. You may not vote on this poll
  • Always

    2 3.39%
  • Never

    24 40.68%
  • Under certain conditions (please explain)

    33 55.93%
Page 2 of 18 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 173

Thread: When is violent protest justified?

  1. #11
    Sage
    lizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    between two worlds
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,581

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It depends on what you mean by 'right'. But there is no doubt that it is quite proper to take up arms against an oppressor., whether he be foreign or domestic. It is in an other context not only admissible but arguably even a duty to take up arms, where a leader is committing atrocities.

    The bolded is essentially what I was referring to. Severing ties, and being willing to fight to the death.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  2. #12
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    In a society of laws with mechanisms to change said laws violent protest is never justified.
    I agree with that. What do think about a society that does not have mechanisms to change said laws?

  3. #13
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,157

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Depends on what kind of violent protest we're talking about, as well as why.


    The "why" had better be mighty good.


    The "violence" had better be focused on legitimate targets. Busting up a store to take a plasma TV because Cousin RayRay got shot by the police isn't legit. Burning down businesses owned by people who did you no wrong, is wrong.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  4. #14
    Resident Martian ;)
    PirateMk1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    9,921

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Note : While I understand that everyone will respond to this thread through the lens of their experiences, I ask that everyone do their best to put aside any emotions, prejudices or non-intellectual motives that may color how they present their ideas when responding to the thread question and to other posters.

    In light of the violent protests in Ferguson as well as the calls for peaceful protests by some Americans, I believe that the question of when violent protest is justified has become a very important one to consider, if not fully answer. Given this importance, I pose the question to the members of DP : When is violent protest justified?

    Before you answer the question, I think it's fair for me to do that myself, though I should note that my position on this topic is still developing. In short, I believe that violent protest is justified when two conditions are met : 1. When the human or civil rights of the protesters have been threatened. 2. When all or most nonviolent means of protest have failed to secure the human or civil rights that have been threatened.
    If violence is called for I aint gona be in the street with protesters. There is a time for violence. That time is when you or yours lives are threatened in such manner that it is tantamount to enslavement or death, and the covenant under which we live has been substantially altered to the detriment of my family and myself. That's war time. Violent protest sure, if you call it a protest. When your backs are put against the wall there is only one course of action, as Sun Tzu said, when in death ground, fight.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  5. #15
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:31 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,265

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    In a society of laws with mechanisms to change said laws violent protest is never justified.
    That is probably true, if the laws are enforced and the mechanisms function. But that is not always so clear cut. After all, the kid was shot six times and charges will not be made. And the mechanisms have arguably had plenty of time to work their magic, while Blacks are still certainly not equal in society other than in theory.

  6. #16
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I said other because if the tables are turned what would be said? Suppose that a store owner "violently protests" being looted/burned out by shooting the looters/arsonists - would that be acceptable? Is that store owner not allowed the basic human right of earning a living and having their personal property (and safety) respected?
    Fair question. I think my answer to your points are located in part 2 of my argument in the OP : "When all or most nonviolent means of protest have failed to secure the human or civil rights that have been threatened." In the case of the store owner, he may call the police or his insurance company to get justice or money to pay for the damage. He may even get money from the public to put his store back together. And, if those do not work - if he has no constructive means of defending his livilhood - then violence may be justified.

    When the police decide to "stand down", in order to appease the race hustling, poverty pimps, then they are simply begging the otherwise law abiding folks to take matters into their own hands.
    I asked that this sort of anti-intellectual rhetoric not be brought into this thread. Please honor that. Thanks.

  7. #17
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,551

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Self defense isn't violent protest against society. It is defense of self against an individual or group who is trying to harm you.
    Vandalism, looting and burning of private structures is violent protest against individuals. Society is simply a collection of individuals - note that the OP did not specify "society" as the target of violent protest since it is not.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #18
    Resident Martian ;)
    PirateMk1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    9,921

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    In a society of laws with mechanisms to change said laws violent protest is never justified.
    That provides of course the mechanisms are working in a substantial degree and are accessible in same said degree. If they are working then I agree. If they are not and I face substantial harm from said system, then there is gona be a big problem.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  9. #19
    Sage
    lizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    between two worlds
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,581

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Vandalism, looting and burning of private structures is also violent protest against individuals. Society is simply a collection of individuals - note that the OP did not specify "society" as the target of violent protest since it is not.
    Well, no it really isn't against individuals. It's blind violent nonsense, not directed at any specific business or individual. If a group spefically focused on Mr Jones Hardware Store, because the owner had caused harm to the group or a member of the group, then your point would be more accurate. What I am referring to, and I believe the op is referring to, is protests such as we saw last night. That is protest, not a case of self-defense.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  10. #20
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Depends on what you mean as violence. Some hold that property destruction is not violence (I do not hold this view, just sayin). But I say under certain conditions it can be, especially when the police strike you first, or are using overwhelming force such as live round shooting people. But other than that, I think for the most part protestors should stay peaceful, or as peaceful as the conditions call for.
    Your conditions for the justification of violent protest are rooted in the presence of imminent threats (e.g. live rounds). Do you think violent protest (including the destruction of property) is ever justified even when an imminent threat is not present? For instance, I believe that even if the police are completely passive, violent protest can be justified if nonviolent protest has not been successful. Would you agree or do you have another perspective on that?

Page 2 of 18 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •