View Poll Results: When is violent protest justified?

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  • Always

    2 3.39%
  • Never

    24 40.68%
  • Under certain conditions (please explain)

    33 55.93%
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Thread: When is violent protest justified?

  1. #131
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    The problem is deciding, when a society is (no longer) civilized. At which point would you have thought about stopping Hitler violently?
    We didn't stop our government from rounding up Japanese and putting them in concentration camps, so it's unlikely we would riot over anything worthwhile.

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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    What are those conditions?
    Now when I am talking violence, I am not talking violence like is now happening in the US or has happened in the Middle East. I am talking about not allowing the police to stop a demonstration by forcing your way through a barricade or throwing up barricades so that the police cannot remove you from your protest site. Defending yourself from violent attempts to stop a demonstration can also be legal as long as they do not go over the top.

    Violence should be attempted to be avoided at all times, but forcing yourself into a government office to get your grievances heard in cases where this is not possible through legal or democratic means, then yes, that is the violence I am talking about. Standing up for yourself with force.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  3. #133
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    We didn't stop our government from rounding up Japanese and putting them in concentration camps, so it's unlikely we would riot over anything worthwhile.
    That was a little nasty. I do not know that I would use the loaded expression concentration camps. They were not as bad as that. But the Japanese were interned in 1942 and the procedure was upheld by the Supreme Court in 1944 and Reagan actually made payments of $ 20.000 to the survivors. This was extended to their heirs later on.

    Whether in war this is acceptable is hard to say. I tend to believe it is not. That is why I am somewhat at odds with the idea of stopping citizens from going to Syria or to Pakistan, if they are not at the moment already criminals.

  4. #134
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That was a little nasty. I do not know that I would use the loaded expression concentration camps. They were not as bad as that. But the Japanese were interned in 1942 and the procedure was upheld by the Supreme Court in 1944 and Reagan actually made payments of $ 20.000 to the survivors. This was extended to their heirs later on.

    Whether in war this is acceptable is hard to say. I tend to believe it is not. That is why I am somewhat at odds with the idea of stopping citizens from going to Syria or to Pakistan, if they are not at the moment already criminals.
    I firmly believe our government did it's best to play nice-nice after the fact. So does Germany to this day with it's people.

    Point is: we let it happen. We should not have. We should have killed every cop and soldier who came for Japanese citizens. But we didn't, and the German people never stood up to Hitler either, and we won't when it happens again.

    What the NRA knows that most of it's membership doesn't is that we don't actually have any intention of overthrowing our government when it inevitably becomes tyrannical. The LA riots are the worst it will ever get in America; maybe another riot on par with the LA Riots but never an armed militia marching on any state or federal building. Rednecks talk a big talk with their yellow snake flag but if they meant a word of it they would have started executing heads of state the instant the Gun Control Act was passed, again when the AFT abused it's new power under the Gun Control Act, and again when Reagan signed the machine gun ban, and again with Clinton's 'assault-weapon' ban, and again every time anyone proposes any gon control law because truthfully all gun control is highly unconstitutional because no, the commerce clause does not give Congress any authority to regulate firearms in the slightest.

    No one actually believes any of that crap and if you think pro-gun believes it then they're better lairs then you gave them credit for.

    It's just a meme to have some fun toys while we can and make some money in the process. No one actually thinks the US government can be or will ever be threatened by it's populace. That war was fought already and the Confederacy lost. It's over.

  5. #135
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Note : While I understand that everyone will respond to this thread through the lens of their experiences, I ask that everyone do their best to put aside any emotions, prejudices or non-intellectual motives that may color how they present their ideas when responding to the thread question and to other posters.

    In light of the violent protests in Ferguson as well as the calls for peaceful protests by some Americans, I believe that the question of when violent protest is justified has become a very important one to consider, if not fully answer. Given this importance, I pose the question to the members of DP : When is violent protest justified?

    Before you answer the question, I think it's fair for me to do that myself, though I should note that my position on this topic is still developing. In short, I believe that violent protest is justified when two conditions are met : 1. When the human or civil rights of the protesters have been threatened. 2. When all or most nonviolent means of protest have failed to secure the human or civil rights that have been threatened.
    If vegetarians take over governments and ban the consumption of meat you can bet Im gonna violently protest.

  6. #136
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I firmly believe our government did it's best to play nice-nice after the fact. So does Germany to this day with it's people.

    Point is: we let it happen. We should not have. We should have killed every cop and soldier who came for Japanese citizens. But we didn't, and the German people never stood up to Hitler either, and we won't when it happens again.

    What the NRA knows that most of it's membership doesn't is that we don't actually have any intention of overthrowing our government when it inevitably becomes tyrannical. The LA riots are the worst it will ever get in America; maybe another riot on par with the LA Riots but never an armed militia marching on any state or federal building. Rednecks talk a big talk with their yellow snake flag but if they meant a word of it they would have started executing heads of state the instant the Gun Control Act was passed, again when the AFT abused it's new power under the Gun Control Act, and again when Reagan signed the machine gun ban, and again with Clinton's 'assault-weapon' ban, and again every time anyone proposes any gon control law because truthfully all gun control is highly unconstitutional because no, the commerce clause does not give Congress any authority to regulate firearms in the slightest.

    No one actually believes any of that crap and if you think pro-gun believes it then they're better lairs then you gave them credit for.

    It's just a meme to have some fun toys while we can and make some money in the process. No one actually thinks the US government can be or will ever be threatened by it's populace. That war was fought already and the Confederacy lost. It's over.
    I do not really think that is quite right. There was a difference between what happened to the Japanese Americans and the Jews. The reasons were quite different also. I think that it is rather a bad idea to equate these two occurrences, though, I do see why you might do so. They do look similar and there is race involved. What is certainly true is that most of the Japanese were not dangerous to the US, though, their neighbors might have been dangerous to persons of Japanese origin. You might also say that the Germans were at war with the Jews' allies, which was wrong but probably to a certain extent believed by the Germans.

    But certainly that does not mean that populations are allowed to let their government commit atrocities. But I do not think you are saying that.

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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I do not really think that is quite right. There was a difference between what happened to the Japanese Americans and the Jews. The reasons were quite different also. I think that it is rather a bad idea to equate these two occurrences, though, I do see why you might do so. They do look similar and there is race involved. What is certainly true is that most of the Japanese were not dangerous to the US, though, their neighbors might have been dangerous to persons of Japanese origin. You might also say that the Germans were at war with the Jews' allies, which was wrong but probably to a certain extent believed by the Germans.

    But certainly that does not mean that populations are allowed to let their government commit atrocities. But I do not think you are saying that.
    Americans have before and will again allow the United States to act in direct opposition to the Constitution. We have before and will again allow our heads of state to perform treason right in front of us. For example: Not only did Nixon live to see the end of the day after violating President John Adams's 1797 Logan Act by interfering with the nearly successful Vietnam peace talks, but we elected him into office. We The People are to retarded to keep our Republic.

    When is violent protest justified? Doesn't matter because we won't do it when it's called for anyway.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-26-14 at 08:54 AM.

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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    When is violent protest justified?-000000000-jpg

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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Americans have before and will again allow the United States to act in direct opposition to the Constitution. We have before and will again allow our heads of state to perform treason right in front of us. For example: Not only did Nixon live to see the end of the day after violating President John Adams's 1797 Logan Act by interfering with the nearly successful Vietnam peace talks, but we elected him into office. We The People are to retarded to keep our Republic.

    When is violent protest justified? Doesn't matter because we won't do it when it's called for anyway.
    It certainly is not an easy call, when to rise against authority. But the Blacks seem to have done so just now, independent of whether they were right or wrong.

  10. #140
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    In a society of laws with mechanisms to change said laws violent protest is never justified.
    That's nice, but naive... in the sense that it presumes the system is always pure and just and above board.

    Or, are you saying that we only have such a system on paper and not in reality?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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