View Poll Results: When is violent protest justified?

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  • Always

    2 3.39%
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    24 40.68%
  • Under certain conditions (please explain)

    33 55.93%
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Thread: When is violent protest justified?

  1. #101
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Why should people believe that the justice system will protect them, if they get stopped by a cop after robbing a store and then apparently resist arrest?
    That is an odd way to see it. It does not make any difference, why and under what circumstances the kid was shot. We do not know all that. But we do know that the cop that shot the kid will not stand no matter what happened. And a large number of citizens seem to believe that that would happen, if they were shot. They do not think the legal system protects them. And that is bad, because the legitimacy of nations stands and falls with the safety they provide their citizens. Without legitimacy the government can maintain order only with coercive force.

  2. #102
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That is an odd way to see it. It does not make any difference, why and under what circumstances the kid was shot. We do not know all that. But we do know that the cop that shot the kid will not stand no matter what happened. And a large number of citizens seem to believe that that would happen, if they were shot. They do not think the legal system protects them. And that is bad, because the legitimacy of nations stands and falls with the safety they provide their citizens. Without legitimacy the government can maintain order only with coercive force.


    So there should be a trial everytime a police officer shoots someone? Whether there is any evidence of wrongdoing or not?

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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Germany had mechanisms in the 1930s and we have been trying to achieve equal rights since before I was born.
    And so how does burning down stores achieve your end?
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  4. #104
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    When is violent protest justified?

    It is sometimes justified, however, keep in mind that I'm the kindd of guy who does not like the Sons of Liberty and the Boston Tea Party and find their orientation toward achieving societal change disgusting.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #105
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I said other because if the tables are turned what would be said? Suppose that a store owner "violently protests" being looted/burned out by shooting the looters/arsonists - would that be acceptable? Is that store owner not allowed the basic human right of earning a living and having their personal property (and safety) respected? When the police decide to "stand down", in order to appease the race hustling, poverty pimps, then they are simply begging the otherwise law abiding folks to take matters into their own hands.
    Good points. The owner has the right to protect his property, and if deadly force is used against him/her, they then should respond in a like manner. The Korean community had to take manners in their own hands during the Rodney King riots in LA because the police refused to assist them.
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  6. #106
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I tentatively suggest that every person and institution is entitled to their own idea of whether violence is appropriate and that, the value of their violence should be measured according to whether or not it helped them reach their goal. In other words, I wonder if the question to ask is "Who won?" rather than "Who should and should not have used force?"
    Color me cynical, but I don't that those who have indulged themselves in criminal behavior in Ferguson have asked themselves these questions.

    And being disappointed in a grand jury's decision is no excuse for violence. As noted immediately in this thread, we are are society of laws. There are ways to lawfully redress grievances.

  7. #107
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Note : While I understand that everyone will respond to this thread through the lens of their experiences, I ask that everyone do their best to put aside any emotions, prejudices or non-intellectual motives that may color how they present their ideas when responding to the thread question and to other posters.

    In light of the violent protests in Ferguson as well as the calls for peaceful protests by some Americans, I believe that the question of when violent protest is justified has become a very important one to consider, if not fully answer. Given this importance, I pose the question to the members of DP : When is violent protest justified?

    Before you answer the question, I think it's fair for me to do that myself, though I should note that my position on this topic is still developing. In short, I believe that violent protest is justified when two conditions are met : 1. When the human or civil rights of the protesters have been threatened. 2. When all or most nonviolent means of protest have failed to secure the human or civil rights that have been threatened.
    like any other violent act... a violent protest is only justified in self defense.

    in addition, for such a protest to be fully justified, the target must be only those whom have initiated violence on the protesters and caused them to defend themselves.
    committing violence on bystanders or innocents is flat out unjustified.

    so, in my mind, none of the violence in the protests in Ferguson are justified

  8. #108
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    The Boston Tea Party was a violent protest that involved the looting and destruction of private property.....and it is widely heralded as "patriotic" in our history books. I would say rarely is violent protest justified, but I think there are times when it is.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  9. #109
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    When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The Boston Tea Party was a violent protest that involved the looting and destruction of private property.....and it is widely heralded as "patriotic" in our history books. I would say rarely is violent protest justified, but I think there are times when it is.
    Indeed it was a violent protest. My own politically high-up ancestors were members of the Sons of Liberty (to whatever extent they actually participated I haven't yet been able to figure out).

    I hold the Sons of Liberty with disdain for their plebeian barbarism, as had many of the more aristocratic factions of the American populace. They thought such actions were beneath their social standing and were illustrative of the dangers of democratic impulses. I agreed.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 11-25-14 at 07:09 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  10. #110
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    Re: When is violent protest justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Well said, but I would add one caveat to that: When the gov't prevents the legal processes that allow this to occur from happening and a large percentage of the population finds themselves completely cut off from legal avenues to address the situation, then it's time to take the gov't down. Not burn cars in the streets, but to confront the GOVERNMENT with the necessary level of violence needed to stop it from further violations of the law.
    I agree with you but I always remember Jefferson's comment that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." and then his complete horror when he saw
    his remark made real during the French Revolution. Violence should be the very last resort.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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