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Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    Votes: 16 48.5%

  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    Votes: 4 12.1%

  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    Votes: 13 39.4%

  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    33
US Conservative

US Conservative

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A welfare state is a concept of government in which the state plays a key role in the protection and promotion of the economic and social well-being of its citizens. It is based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth, and public responsibility for those unable to avail themselves of the minimal provisions for a good life. The general term may cover a variety of forms of economic and social organization.[1] The sociologist T.H. Marshall identified the welfare state as a distinctive combination of democracy, welfare, and capitalism. Welfare state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A night-watchman state, or a minimal state, is variously defined by sources. In the strictest sense, it is a form of government in political philosophy where the state's only legitimate function is the protection of individuals from assault, theft, breach of contract, and fraud, and the only legitimate governmental institutions are the military, police, and courts. In the broadest sense, it also includes various civil service and emergency-rescue departments (such as the fire departments), prisons, the executive, the judiciary, and the legislatures as legitimate government functions.[1][2][3]
Advocacy of a night-watchman state is known as minarchism.
Night-watchman state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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More reading can be found at the provided links. Please read them and using the provided definitions vote.


Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?
 
US Conservative said:
More reading can be found at the provided links. Please read them and using the provided definitions vote.


Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?
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Night watchman. The state depends upon the initiation of violence for everything it does. Thus, in my opinion, the less it does, the better.
 
Night-watchmen state. The govt's role is to provide a minimalist role in protecting its citizens, not forcibly coercing everyone for the political power of the few.

Eventually, the welfare state leads here...
wagon-ending.jpg

Not even eating the rich can prevent this.
 
If holds that it's not right for one person to violate the person or property of his neighbor, then one cannot support anything more than a night watchman state. Everything the state does beyond acting as a night watchman is just more violation of the person or property of the citizen.
 
US Conservative said:
More reading can be found at the provided links. Please read them and using the provided definitions vote.


Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?
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Problem is, while the 'welfare state' is a reality and it has resulted in the highest standard of living on the planet, there is precisely no example - whether now or at any time in history - of a 'night watchmen state' bringing a high standard of living to the population.

In other words, one's a reality and the other's a fantasy.

Thing is, with the 'night watchmen state', it would work just fine...IF everyone thought the same way, had the same levels of ability, had the same degree of opportunity. But this is humanity we're talking about - and while the welfare state is designed to handle the whole range of differences in the human experience, the 'night watchmen state' is not.
 
WTF, it's been 20 minutes and no votes for a Welfare state yet. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Problem is, while the 'welfare state' is a reality and it has resulted in the highest standard of living on the planet, there is precisely no example - whether now or at any time in history - of a 'night watchmen state' bringing a high standard of living to the population.

In other words, one's a reality and the other's a fantasy.

Thing is, with the 'night watchmen state', it would work just fine...IF everyone thought the same way, had the same levels of ability, had the same degree of opportunity. But this is humanity we're talking about - and while the welfare state is designed to handle the whole range of differences in the human experience, the 'night watchmen state' is not.
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I agree that there aren't real world examples of minarchism on a national scale, but the question remains. BTW, did you vote and if so how?
 
Well since this poll is in the world of absolutes, I am in favor of a welfare state. Yup, I said it.
 
US Conservative said:
I agree that there aren't real world examples of minarchism on a national scale, but the question remains. BTW, did you vote and if so how?
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Left-leaning, welfare state. Because I believe in doing what works for all, and not in doing what works for only those who think a certain way.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Neither, they both end in disaster. A notion that has well supported history.
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ANY governmental system can end in disaster - there's no guarantees.

That said, what governmental system has resulted in the highest standards of living in human history? What governmental system has led to the longest periods of real peace in human history?

In other words, go with what has been shown to work better than all the others.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Winston Churchill
 
US Conservative said:
More reading can be found at the provided links. Please read them and using the provided definitions vote.


Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?
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If men were angels, that is if all people were good hearted and good intentioned and worked to put their sweat where their mouth was, either would do.


The problem with a night-watchman state it is doesn't prevent the exploitation of the poor, as seen during the Industrial revolution and indeed until modern governments instituted workplace safety rules and so on.

The problem with the welfare state is so much money flows through its hands that it grows corrupt, and the temptation to ride the wagon is strong for some.

Somewhere in the middle would be better.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Left-leaning, welfare state. Because I believe in doing what works for all, and not in doing what works for only those who think a certain way.
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What works for all? Who decides that? What if what "works" for all in practice means taking from some to give to others for votes?

Also, I dont see your view reflected in the poll, why is this?
 
US Conservative said:
What works for all? Who decides that? What if what "works" for all in practice means taking from some to give to others for votes?

Also, I dont see your view reflected in the poll, why is this?
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I voted, and I said which one I chose. Check again, if you've got access to see who voted how.

And you're going with the old "taking from some and giving to others" argument. The problem is, the ONLY way to avoid that is to have zero, precisely zero, taxes at all...and you can't have a functional nation without taxes in one form or another. Can't be done. So since we WILL have a system where there will be taxation (taking from some and giving to others), why not go with that system that works best for the most people? Like, you know, the system that has led to the highest standards of living in human history?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Can you provide some examples of minarchism resulting in a successful nation that last for many generations? Or even ONE example?
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I dont know that minarchism has been employed at the level of a nation, but I have seen the welfare state end in disaster (USSR is a prime example). Does this mean you cannot provide examples of minarchism ending in disaster?
 
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