View Poll Results: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, Welfare state.

    0 0%
  • Im a left leaning American, Welfare state.

    17 45.95%
  • Im not American, Welfare state.

    4 10.81%
  • Im a right leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    16 43.24%
  • Im a left leaning American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
  • Im not American, Night-watchmen state.

    0 0%
Page 4 of 25 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 244

Thread: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

  1. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Between Athens and Jerusalem
    Last Seen
    05-18-16 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    33,522

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Perhaps disaster was the wrong word, but name a system of monarchism that survived the ages till today. But I will say systems of government and economy that lean too far to planned do end up in disaster. Seems to me the better option is a minimal Republic style representative government over a mixed model economic system that leans market.
    I dont see how monarchy is comparable. Does the absence of a minarchy somehow make it less valid?

  2. #32
    Anti-Hypocrite
    molten_dragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    9,351

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    As I see it, you are for the welfare state, apparently to an extent you find acceptable. Does that observation work for you?
    If that's the way you want to see it I guess. I don't think it's quite as black and white as you do though.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  3. #33
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,185

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I'm with you, but alas, according to US Conservative, that means we both vote welfare state.


    Well, people often refer to me as conservative, mainly because of my position on gun rights and dislike of excessive government... but I really am a centrist.

    I favor a social safety net (preferably a much more efficiently run one that we have at present, focused more on hand UP than hand-out), and some limited gov't intervention in the "free market" to prevent things like monopoly and the exploitation of desperate workers by far more powerful employers, and so on.


    I just recognize that massive wealth is a form of power in itself, and those who accumulate such massive wealth and capitol can so easily steamroller those without it, that some gov't protection of the individual citizen in economic matters is as necessary as safeguarding the Bill of Rights.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  4. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Between Athens and Jerusalem
    Last Seen
    05-18-16 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    33,522

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Perhaps disaster was the wrong word, but name a system of monarchism that survived the ages till today. But I will say systems of government and economy that lean too far to planned do end up in disaster. Seems to me the better option is a minimal Republic style representative government over a mixed model economic system that leans market.
    I dont see how monarchy is comparable. Does the absence of a minarchy somehow make it less valid?

  5. #35
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 07:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    15,538

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I dont know that minarchism has been employed at the level of a nation, but I have seen the welfare state end in disaster (USSR is a prime example). Does this mean you cannot provide examples of minarchism ending in disaster?
    You have yet to provide any proof that minarchism can work at all. Just saying "I know it can work!" without anything to back it up just won't do the trick. At its most basic level, government is a function of human psychology...and speaking for myself, I would support that which is PROVEN to work the best for the greatest number of people in the population.

    And when it comes to the USSR, you're comparing apples and oranges...because the USSR was never a socialized democracy, whereas all the most successful nations on the planet ARE socialized democracies...including America.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  6. #36
    A sinister place...
    OrphanSlug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Last Seen
    08-08-17 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,860

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I dont see how monarchy is comparable. Does the absence of a minarchy somehow make it less valid?
    It is like saying we need a pure capitalist system of economy. By that theory the system does have an end.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

  7. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Between Athens and Jerusalem
    Last Seen
    05-18-16 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    33,522

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    If that's the way you want to see it I guess. I don't think it's quite as black and white as you do though.
    The purpose of this poll is not to precisely pinpoint anyones views, but rather to see where they lie generally. On a spectrum, most people exist somewhere in the middle.

  8. #38
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 07:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    15,538

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I think taxation is a reasonable imposition on the people, but only for the minimal functions of govt (military, emergency services, etc). However, I draw the line at where that becomes a means to transfer wealth between citizens. Do you see the distinction I make?
    Any taxation at all is wealth redistribution - just like the conservatives have always said.

    That said, why not do that which has been shown to be the most beneficial to the greatest percentage of the population? Besides, when taxes were much higher - as they certainly were for the thirty years from 1951-1980, during which we remained on top of the economic heap - do you remember the rich lining up at the soup line? Of course not. The taxes were much higher...and (except for what happened due to the Arab Oil Embargo) America prospered quite nicely.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #39
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Between Athens and Jerusalem
    Last Seen
    05-18-16 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    33,522

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, people often refer to me as conservative, mainly because of my position on gun rights and dislike of excessive government... but I really am a centrist.

    I favor a social safety net (preferably a much more efficiently run one that we have at present, focused more on hand UP than hand-out), and some limited gov't intervention in the "free market" to prevent things like monopoly and the exploitation of desperate workers by far more powerful employers, and so on.


    I just recognize that massive wealth is a form of power in itself, and those who accumulate such massive wealth and capitol can so easily steamroller those without it, that some gov't protection of the individual citizen in economic matters is as necessary as safeguarding the Bill of Rights.
    Seems reasonable.

  10. #40
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,727

    Re: Welfare state vs the night-watchmen state-which do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If men were angels, that is if all people were good hearted and good intentioned and worked to put their sweat where their mouth was, either would do.


    The problem with a night-watchman state it is doesn't prevent the exploitation of the poor, as seen during the Industrial revolution and indeed until modern governments instituted workplace safety rules and so on.

    Somewhere in the middle would be better.
    Yeah, because the government would never, itself, be responsible for exploitation.

    Perhaps it's not always exploitation when someone has financial success. Perhaps it's this assumption that adult people are as capable of making decisions for there own welfare as I am.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


Page 4 of 25 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •